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Employee #1: Dropbox

themacro.com

71–80 of 96 posts

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#71

> But I ended up picking Mercurial for the distributed version control system, which we were definitely wrong on that one–should have picked Git. I'm curious to know: is this sentiment widely shared? Is git really that much better than hg?

personally I like mercurial better than git, and also using on my desktop to clone github repos with hggit extension

Facebook picked mercurial over git because it's easier to customize.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#72

An interesting titbit Aston leaves out about his early days is that he was actually cofounder of AutoAdmit.com[0], a law school admissions forum, semi-notorious for its defamation lawsuits and being an incubator for troll, Michael O. Church[1] (banned on Quora, Wikipedia, and Hacker News for being a thorn in Paul Graham and Dan G, sides) that formed after the great Princeton Review Discussion Board exodus and has per…

Michael O. Church a troll? Please. The guy had an odd view of himself but I always found he provided excellent well thought out analysis and arguments. I'm not saying he is always right, but he wasn't a troll.

Thanks Michael.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#74

> We were all using the product so when there was funny stuff we tended to catch it. I love this. There have been so many times I've run into a bug that makes me wonder if anyone on the engineering team actually used the product.

In my experience dogfooding is the only way to build a great product. Without dogfooding features erode. The "oh I haven't tested that in 6 months" happens frequently. The UX never evolves. I have NEVER worked on a product that got worse when it was dogfooded and I have NEVER worked on a product that consistently got better without dogfooding (sometimes it'll get better but it's always in spurts before going back dow…

Dogfooding is difficult to achieve if you work in a niche industry which has no immediate relevance to your development team. Smart developers who care about what happens beyond the back of their monitor will, of course, quickly learn a lot about the sector, but they're never going to know or care as much as a real user of the product, and they're never really going to have the same interest as they would if they were building a text editor.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience dogfooding is the only way to build a great product. Without dogfooding features erode. The "oh I haven't tested that in 6 months" happens frequently. The UX never evolves. I have NEVER worked on a product that got worse when it was dogfooded and I have NEVER worked on a product that consistently got better without dogfooding (sometimes it'll get better but it's always in spurts before going back dow…

Dogfooding is difficult to achieve if you work in a niche industry which has no immediate relevance to your development team. Smart developers who care about what happens beyond the back of their monitor will, of course, quickly learn a lot about the sector, but they're never going to know or care as much as a real user of the product, and they're never really going to have the same interest as they would if they wer…

Dogfooding does not require interest. Yes something niche that a developer on their own will never use is difficult (I think we had this as some of the previous companies I have worked at). Still, you should get the development team to use and demo the system on a semi regular basis. Make creating project ideas or something that they can use your product to make and play with. Tell them to take off every X hours a week or two weeks or something to ensure they are constantly using the product.

It's harder but in my experience it's still necessary. At least I've never seen a good product come from a team that didn't also use the product. That I know of, anyway.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#76
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His dad went to harvard so I am guessing he grew up pretty well off.

Yep. That explains how he was able to focus full time on Dropbox then. He must have always had a trampoline to bounce him back up should he fail. I know it was funded from the beginning most likely, but there had to have been a time before it was funded.

I feel like most all of us (and especially those of us in the USA) have a fairly decent "trampoline" to fall back on. Most of us have enough skills to go out and get a decent job whenever we need to. Most of us can trade Netflix for side projects and the costs of starting out are so low that there is virtually no risk.

It's basically our duty to take that risk.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#77

An interesting titbit Aston leaves out about his early days is that he was actually cofounder of AutoAdmit.com[0], a law school admissions forum, semi-notorious for its defamation lawsuits and being an incubator for troll, Michael O. Church[1] (banned on Quora, Wikipedia, and Hacker News for being a thorn in Paul Graham and Dan G, sides) that formed after the great Princeton Review Discussion Board exodus and has per…

Michael O. Church a troll? Please. The guy had an odd view of himself but I always found he provided excellent well thought out analysis and arguments. I'm not saying he is always right, but he wasn't a troll.

Are we sure "pensive_returns" isn't Michael O. Church? Serious question: commenters on HN that write in an idiosyncratic fashion about Church have turned out to be him before.

Every time I read a comment about Church, I find myself asking, "is this how a normal person would write about someone best known for commenting on message boards?"

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#78

> We were all using the product so when there was funny stuff we tended to catch it. I love this. There have been so many times I've run into a bug that makes me wonder if anyone on the engineering team actually used the product.

I worked at a iphone game company, where after about 6-9 months of of them being there we let a game designer go. Of course we recycle the ipads to the next person, at which point we realize, none of the hardware had been authorized to run our app so therefore could never have been played. Yea....dogfooding is important

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting example. Genuine question, had it been the opposite, if you circle back in time, would you really take that job? (Trick question: Are you less happy than you think you would have been in other case?)

Complicated question. It certainly would've been better financially, though honestly, the difference is "set for life" vs. "set for a long time", so I'm not certain it would make a material difference in my life now. Besides, I think it's fairly likely that even if I were set for life, I'd be doing something fairly similar to what I'm doing now. I think that in terms of lifestyle & personal goals during the 4-5 years…

Hey Nostrademons,

I appreciate your thoughtful responses so I was wondering what your thoughts are on importance and corresponding compensation of the 1st employee at a company.

If the first employee is important enough that in your mind, it's possible that with depending on the first employee they may or may not be a billion dollar company, do you think the first employee compensation is commensurate with that? Aston also mentions specifically the commitment he has as a first employee, and how he feels "you're basically a founder" in terms of responsibility.

In my opinion, he made off about as well as any first employee could reasonably expect (even unreasonably I'd argue).

I don't have the perspective of either a startup founder or the first employee anywhere so I'm not trying to slight the Dropbox founders in any way.

I guess my question boils down to two parts 1. What do you think a reasonable level of compensation is for a first employee 2. Given the success rates of startups (low), why would someone want to be the first employee somewhere versus either their own startup, or a later stage company that could pay them a much higher salary then the typical startup compensation. My unstated assumption here, which you might disagree with, is that someone who could have the impact of Aston, could become a staff engineer at somewhere like facebook/google/microsoft/etc and pull total compensation of 300/400k with a significantly higher chance.

Re: Employee #1: Dropbox

#80
Anyone noticing from these interviews that a lot of first employees are kinda just randos that aren't very impressive in their own right and don't stay at the company very long?
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