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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#71

Post by JMCQ87 »

Dolores12 wrote: post #66
captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

As an US citizen, you don't have to fear, you have freedom of speech.

I hope that was sarcastic.

Otherwise it's hilarious, especially in this context.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#72

Post by varjag »

zouhair wrote: post #25
jondoe wrote: post #22

Sorry Snowden but I don't support anything what "George Soros" support, i read you book,interview [...] but you are on wrong side of barricade https://www.google.co.uk/#q=gorge+soros "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more" http://commieblaster.com/george-soros-fund/ http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/how-george-soros-si... http://www.infowars.com/soros-admits-respons…

And you think Putin is better? But Soros is where you draw the line.

Having a thing for Putin pretty much guarantees hate for Soros so it's not surprising.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#73

Post by unicornporn »

imron wrote: post #37
allendoerfer wrote: post #20

I think the problem is, people do not care anymore. The scandal is over, business as usual. Only a small percentage of the population still cares about Snowden. I think the image of the NSA has been hurt and a change in legislation might get you some positive press in the future, but I do not think that pardoning Snowden would be worth the effort for a politician. On the other hand: Obama probably does not have to ca…

I think people are confusing your statement of the situation as endorsement of the situation. The reality is, I think you're right. Sadly, for the majority of people, this is not an issue they care about.

Descriptive vs normative statements. Surprisingly difficult for people to differentiate between the two.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#74

Post by gizmo »

WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #62
gizmo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edward Snowden is hugely valuable politically because he stood up to the intelligence agencies and survived (so far). Most importantly, we have a moral obligation to get him pardoned. Snowden sacrificed a great deal already. He doesn't need to be martyred, he should be allowed to return home and continue his life.

oh no doubt, what was done to him is atrocious and repugnant. I was only trying out an argument that politically his fate is no longer important, and it is of greater value to focus on what will protect the next Snowden better. It's still clearly a moral imperative to help Snowden.

What happens to Snowden sets a precedent. That has huge implications politically. An America where Snowden gets assassinated will be a different America politically than one where Snowden gets the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#76

Post by JMCQ87 »

nothis wrote: post #69
captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

You know what? I don't think that's an unreasonable concern and it's exactly why this situation is so horrible. It's the return cold war communism paranoia. "Of course I'm allowed to do this, but will this get me on some watchlist?" I guess the ethical answer is that, the more people will sign this (think a million?), the less likely it is to be used as some kind of filter. Even though what's one million names in a d…

You're allowed your quota of one medium-impact dissident action per week, just like everyone else. As it helps to keep up maintaining the illusion of democracy and free speech, you are actually doing your country a great service.

If you start to do more, however... Consider yourself warned. ^^

In this case, I can reassure you though:

Online petition clicktivism has been shown to be very ineffective, so it's only considered a minor-impact dissident action. You are allowed five of those per week. ;)

Re: Pardon Snowden

#77

Post by pearjuice »

aikah wrote: post #53
pearjuice wrote: post #45

Snowden should be put on trial for committing treason. No matter how bad it is what he exposed. He broke the law[0]. What he exposed are policies of the United States by people put in power in a democracy and free country. If you don't want that shit happening in your country, let the people in power know. Go on the streets. Millions of poeple are not happy with what is going on, but literally nothing changed. Sadly,…

> Snowden committed treason The only people that behaved in a treacherous fashion are the one that are spying on you because for them you're just a criminal by default. Furthermore he didn't commit treason, he didn't spy for a 3rd party country. He revealed to the world the scope of NSA spying and did everybody a big favor. There is nothing democratic with secret laws and spying. Today you cannot say you don't know a…

I completely understand what is going wrong and I assume you do too by your vivid explanation. Yet, you spend all your energy explaining it to people on the internet. What I don't get is, why don't you funnel that energy into making change? Everybody understands what is wrong about being permanently spied on, yet nobody does something.

Whether Snowded committed treason cannot be stated in one sentence or even a paragraph - I made a minor edit. He should be put to trial because he evidently broke laws and employee contracts with government institutions.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#78

Post by k_sze »

allendoerfer wrote: post #20

I think the problem is, people do not care anymore. The scandal is over, business as usual. Only a small percentage of the population still cares about Snowden. I think the image of the NSA has been hurt and a change in legislation might get you some positive press in the future, but I do not think that pardoning Snowden would be worth the effort for a politician. On the other hand: Obama probably does not have to ca…

And you know what's also awful? We expect neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump to pardon Snowden in the future. In this sense, Democrats and Republicans are not all that different. It's still all about the interest of the powerful.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#79

Post by tajen »

ekianjo wrote: post #3

Pardonning Snowden while allowing the NSA to continue their business as usual would be strange.

Pardoning is already a good step. It's acknowledging that leaders don't know whether he did something right or wrong, and that it's up for the citizen to decide. It may change the mind of many citizen who currently view him as a traitor. Articles will have to defend their position (such as "E.S, that we view as a traitor") rather than be credited with government force (currently written as "E.S., a traitor that is the world's most wanted criminal").

But I was wondering: Isn't Obama at risk if he pardons him? Wouldn't he be interrupted if he started a speech about Snowden? That's been the #1 interest of his most powerful agencies during his mandate, of course they've thought about the risk that Obama pardons him. He could try to secure the pardon beforehand, by sending the pardon papers to Snowden, but in which kind of letterbox would he post it given NSA's and FBI's reach on communications? He could try to communicate with journalists, but do we still have journalists left after Hillary's body count? etc.

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