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We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

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71–80 of 166 posts

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#71
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument comes up all the time on HN, but I don't think it means anything. It seems to me that the ability to fill an opening by offering more salary can't disprove a talent shortage, because it is always possible to do so. Thought experiment: If 100 companies had openings for a skill set that only one person could deliver, all 100 companies could eventually fill their openings by sequentially outbidding each ot…

In this case, though, there are way more than 6,600 people in the US that would be able to get do that data engineering job, including: 1. physicists 2. Wall St. quants 3. game programmers 4. PhD statisticians So, the problem is not that there aren't 6,600 people in the US that can do it, it's that the companies can't pay or don't want to pay the $200,000 + that would be required to hire them.

This comment will sound a bit self-serving, but it supports your point. I have most of the skills necessary to be a data engineer. My degree in biology, but I nearly got a double major in computer science with a minor in math. (I wanted to work in bioinformatics, but it's nearly impossible to make more than a pittance without a PhD) I didn't pursue the double major because I felt taking classes outside of those three fields was more useful to my development.

Instead of working as a data engineer, I'm working at a non-profit doing pretty much everything involving data for them, as well as running their appeals, and doing almost all of the analysis. I'll lead off by saying the biggest downside of working for this particular non-profit is the salary. However, there are a lot of things I like about this job:

1) Location: I want to be located in Chicago. I have 0 interest in moving out to the West Coast. I'm up in the air about working remotely, because I feel like there is a lot of value in working with people in person.

2) The role is very broad. I get to do a lot of exciting things with data, but it is also a marketing and communication role as well. I am included in nearly every strategic discussion, not just those pertaining to data or technology.

3) Work life balance is very good. I am never expected to work more than 40 hours a week. My boss makes sure that everyone is focused on their lives, to the point where he basically kicked me out of the office for a week because I was waffling about taking a vacation. He makes sure that people know they aren't expected to check their email or do work on the VPN during off-hours.

4) The work I do makes a difference. Not in a "I make something people use" difference, but in a "my work has rescued people from being homeless and fed starving kids" difference. My first couple of jobs out of college were totally lacking this aspect, and I didn't realize how much it meant to me until I started working at a place like this.

I've been here a few years now, and so it's approaching the time where I should start looking for a new job if I want to continue to grow, but I'm having trouble visualizing what that would be. From my perspective, the problem with hiring is that job listings really focus on titles rather than roles, even in smaller organizations. I think my best bet of finding an organization matches the first two points, if not all four, is through my network rather than through job postings. So, to your point, the only way I see myself in a narrow-title role like a "data engineer" is if I really need money.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#72
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My official title is "Data Scientist" although I'm closer to the "ML Engineer" someone else mentions in a child comment. Frankly speaking, if your company doesn't need a data engineer, it won't hire one or move you into that role. They likely don't, either, if you're experiencing this pushback -- data engineers often develop ETL pipelines or data warehouses, both of which are very useful if your company has a data te…

> There's actually a shortage of data-savvy people who can also write production software, and you would nicely complement a more research-inclined data scientist or analyst -- someone with far more experience with research/analysis than development. I experience the same problem with shortage-at-price-X in the field you describe. I'm a machine learning engineer with experience in MCMC methods, but I also have a lot…

Yeah, I strongly believe companies haven't (or aren't willing to) figure(d) out the IC track problem for data people in the way they've figured it out for engineers. Part of me wonders if it even makes sense for them to figure it out, if they're not an Uber/Netflix/Amazon with a strong need for advanced ML abilities.

It sounds like you're a principal/lead/post-senior ML engineer; at that level, you can easily command more than $140k but you have fewer options to apply those skills at companies that really need them (because few companies actually need them).

I don't know. It's tough. I agree that it might be a terrible time to work in ML/computational stats because of stuff like this.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#73
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument comes up all the time on HN, but I don't think it means anything. It seems to me that the ability to fill an opening by offering more salary can't disprove a talent shortage, because it is always possible to do so. Thought experiment: If 100 companies had openings for a skill set that only one person could deliver, all 100 companies could eventually fill their openings by sequentially outbidding each ot…

In this case, though, there are way more than 6,600 people in the US that would be able to get do that data engineering job, including: 1. physicists 2. Wall St. quants 3. game programmers 4. PhD statisticians So, the problem is not that there aren't 6,600 people in the US that can do it, it's that the companies can't pay or don't want to pay the $200,000 + that would be required to hire them.

I'm going to guess most of those people couldn't set up and scale a Hadoop cluster. Are they smart enough that they could learn this stuff? Sure! But there's still a skill mismatch here.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#74

Whenever I see these posts I immediate translate them in my head to "we're in the middle of a talent shortage at a price I am willing to pay." I've worked with very large amounts of data and high performance computing for most of my career; I mostly had finance related jobs in the last decade or so. I have most of the skill you want, including some you don't know you want. However when salary comes up, that is where…

Although your statement is technically true, it is basically meaningless. Yes, you can always always always find somebody to do a job is your a willing to pay 10 million dollars. That means that "shortages" are impossible. It means that you can never have a shortage in any situation, because you can always pay 10 million dollars for a single visit to the doctor. But this line of logic isn't very useful when talking a…

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Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument comes up all the time on HN, but I don't think it means anything. It seems to me that the ability to fill an opening by offering more salary can't disprove a talent shortage, because it is always possible to do so. Thought experiment: If 100 companies had openings for a skill set that only one person could deliver, all 100 companies could eventually fill their openings by sequentially outbidding each ot…

Bullshit. I have the skills for an intermediate-level data engineer, but I find it bland and I'd rather work in computer vision. However, offer me enough and I may reconsider, and I don't think I'm alone in this.

I basically wrote the same thing as a reply to your sibling comment. Data engineering would have to pay a lot more than I currently make for it to be an option, and even then I'd probably change fields once I paid off my student loans and saved some money.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#76
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data engineers are the janitors who keep your data clean and flowing. In a boldface font, no less. The cockiness behind that language is really quite astounding.

It's really true, though. It's brutal, ugly work with no hope of an end. Edit: Favorite paper on the topic: http://research.google.com/pubs/pub43146.html

So is the work that doctors, lawyers, and other highly-skilled people do, by and large. Everyone knows that day-to-day aspects of these jobs are hardly glamorous (or even cerebral), the vast majority of the time. Yet somehow we manage to accord these people with their due degree of respect, and wouldn't think of referring to them as "janitors".

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#77
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My official title is "Data Scientist" although I'm closer to the "ML Engineer" someone else mentions in a child comment. Frankly speaking, if your company doesn't need a data engineer, it won't hire one or move you into that role. They likely don't, either, if you're experiencing this pushback -- data engineers often develop ETL pipelines or data warehouses, both of which are very useful if your company has a data te…

> There's actually a shortage of data-savvy people who can also write production software, and you would nicely complement a more research-inclined data scientist or analyst -- someone with far more experience with research/analysis than development. I experience the same problem with shortage-at-price-X in the field you describe. I'm a machine learning engineer with experience in MCMC methods, but I also have a lot…

Oh, also: if you're in NYC I'd be happy to meet over a coffee/beer to swap stories. Feel free to use the contact info in my profile.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#78

Whenever I see these posts I immediate translate them in my head to "we're in the middle of a talent shortage at a price I am willing to pay." I've worked with very large amounts of data and high performance computing for most of my career; I mostly had finance related jobs in the last decade or so. I have most of the skill you want, including some you don't know you want. However when salary comes up, that is where…

Are they looking for someone who must have every box ticked or are they looking for someone with enough qualifications yet needing work so much they are willing to undercut themselves? Are they justifying their salary offer because you tick 90% of the boxes and not 100%?

I've been looking for work in data engineering and databases for 9 months, and while I'm certainly not as qualified and experienced as you are, I consider myself capable. I've definitely passed the take home and whiteboard tests I've been given, etc.

When I read about a "shortage," I wonder if this is more indicative of unicorn searching than anything else.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#79
post #67

I worked for about 10 years doing exactly what they want, but I ended up having to write a lot of the tools which means I'm not able to check the boxes on some tool you require which gets me punted by HR. I'm starting to think that the message is if HR is going to do checklists then developers should really make sure they work mostly with contracts that use popular checklist items.

As a data person I would really like to put some numbers on how much the typical HR hiring process costs a business. I don't know anybody that says they are happy with how hiring works in he tech industry but I've also never seen an HR person try and improve the process.

That's because the system is already optimised for the needs of HR people.

Re: We’re in the Middle of a Data Engineering Talent Shortage

#80

Whenever I see these posts I immediate translate them in my head to "we're in the middle of a talent shortage at a price I am willing to pay." I've worked with very large amounts of data and high performance computing for most of my career; I mostly had finance related jobs in the last decade or so. I have most of the skill you want, including some you don't know you want. However when salary comes up, that is where…

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