Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#71

Post by pliny » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

alva wrote: post #62

"With regard to unskilled workers, Japanese businesses rely on inexpensive labour from Eastern Europe in the manufacturing and agricultural industries in the UK" What a hypocritical demand from the Japanese. They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world, largely for the sake of national homogeneity at the expensive of their economy. They believe that is a worthwhile sacrifice for them, why n…

I don't see the hypocrisy here, they're not taking a principled stand in favour of immigration by threatening to boycott the UK if they stop allowing immigrants, they're warning the UK that their business there may be unprofitable if they no longer have access to cheap labour.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#72

Post by wuschel » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #8

It's really incredible that three months after the vote, we still haven't the slightest idea what post-Brexit UK will look like. Will they go for the EEA (the least destructive option), or will they - as Theresa May threatens - sacrifice everything just to limit immigration? Three months after the biggest decision in decades, and the subject is barely even being talked about seriously in the UK. I don't understand it…

Please correct me if I am wrong - as I understand, the referendum for the BREXIT is not binding.

As such, there is a lot of fuss and hot air about things that will possibly not materialize. Not to mention all those speculative business affairs..

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#73

Post by matthewmorgan » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

Do people who keep talking 'trade deals' and 'single markets' actually know what they're talking about? This video is instructive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#74

Post by alva » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC

pliny wrote: post #71

alva wrote: post #62

"With regard to unskilled workers, Japanese businesses rely on inexpensive labour from Eastern Europe in the manufacturing and agricultural industries in the UK" What a hypocritical demand from the Japanese. They have one of the strictest set of immigration policies in the world, largely for the sake of national homogeneity at the expensive of their economy. They believe that is a worthwhile sacrifice for them, why n…

I don't see the hypocrisy here, they're not taking a principled stand in favour of immigration by threatening to boycott the UK if they stop allowing immigrants, they're warning the UK that their business there may be unprofitable if they no longer have access to cheap labour.

The warning itself, over concerns that their investments will suffer is totally fair. The hypocrisy however as I see it is that Japan is asking us to make a specific sacrifice for economic growth, that it absolutely will not do itself on principle.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#75

Post by martinko » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC

Numberwang wrote: post #29

martinko wrote: post #7

Indeed the most likely scenario appears to be the 'Norwegian model', where the UK in essence remains in the single market and thus will have to follow European regulations but will have a much smaller say when it comes to the future direction of the EU. They will, however, have officially left the EU so the leave camp can pat their shoulders over their Pyrrhic victory.

UK Will never be allowed to have 'The Norwegian Model' set up by EU. That would have lot's of other countries asking for the same. UK is in for a long winter on GoT type scale.

Valid point, but don't forget that the UK has a much stronger bargaining position than other countries.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#76

Post by 1wd » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #24

polotics wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you clarify what you mean about the swiss?

The Swiss have a more direct democracy than most, and recently voted to limit free travel - trouble is, free travel is a condition of free market access, and with this vote, they're going to lose that. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/eu-swiss-singl...

The Swiss still try to find a compromise that is compatible with free movement.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/immigration-vote-_sommaruga-admi...

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#77

Post by timthorn » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #45

no1youknowz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been a flurry of activity behind the scenes. Philip Hammond was recently in China [1] and discussed the possibility of trade agreements with them and other representatives of other countries who were also there. Australia has already mentioned opening up trade agreements [2] with the UK as well. There is even talk of trading with the common-wealth [3]. The point is this, things are moving forward. Just beca…

Ah, but if you are old enough, you might remember that long before 1973 the UK spanned the world: India, Pakistan, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada. You even had 13 colonies south of Canada. And if you are that old, you might remember that they didn't like the UK way of trading. I hope the UK will never get back that glory. The EU never prevented UK from trading with the rest of the world. If anything, it…

> The EU never prevented UK from trading with the rest of the world

Upon joining the EU, the free trade arrangements that the UK had with Commonwealth countries were dissolved.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#78

Post by rbanffy » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

tajen wrote: post #64

microtonal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it is not in the EU's best interest to give the UK the best possible deal, especially with many populist parties ready to request an exit if the UK deal works out well. The whole process will be immensely complicated: the deal should be bad enough for the UK to instil fear for an exit, but good enough to avoid an economic collapse.

> instill fear Is that how Europe is governed? I think any country should be allowed to leave without condescending comments by anyone. I prefer staying in Europe, but if the majority of my fellows prefer the opposite, then it's democracy. Who are we to judge they are "stupid", "country-side, or "senile", like I've read all across newspapers, or even fascists, like I've heard too? If Europe relies on hating the peopl…

I wouldn't mind if it's their informed opinion. What we see in this case is that they were sold a lie, one that'll eventually collapse into an ugly, harsh truth.

The best deal possible is a Norway-like arrangement, which would be unacceptable to nationalists.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#79

Post by nbevans » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:55 PM UTC

A few thousand jobs that Japanese automakers bring to the UK is nothing compared to the jobs that can be created as a result of a successful Brexit. Jaguar Land Rover continues to go from strength to strength... how about turning the tables so we are actually selling more cars to Japan than they sell to us? Scary thought eh? That's what Brexit is about. It's about daring to think big. Like Great Britain used to do for centuries.

Re: Japan's Unprecedented Warning to UK Over Brexit

#80

Post by m0nty » Sun, Sep 04, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

wuschel wrote: post #72

TillE wrote: post #8

It's really incredible that three months after the vote, we still haven't the slightest idea what post-Brexit UK will look like. Will they go for the EEA (the least destructive option), or will they - as Theresa May threatens - sacrifice everything just to limit immigration? Three months after the biggest decision in decades, and the subject is barely even being talked about seriously in the UK. I don't understand it…

Please correct me if I am wrong - as I understand, the referendum for the BREXIT is not binding. As such, there is a lot of fuss and hot air about things that will possibly not materialize. Not to mention all those speculative business affairs..

It isn't legally binding, and although the Prime Minister said she doesn't intend to consult parliament about it, parliament will still need to repeal the European Communities Act which took us into the EU in the first place. So they could say "no", but I think it unlikely in the current political climate.

It is binding in the sense that it's "the will of the people", albeit by a slender margin, and it's kind of tricky to just ignore that. I personally suspect the Prime Minister is not highly committed to Brexit (she campaigned against it) but can't be seen to be "sabotaging" it by action or inaction, so she's got her game-face on. But she might come back later and say "it just won't work" or "Europe has offered us a better deal on immigration if we remain in", so let's have another referendum.

> a lot of fuss and hot air about things that will possibly not materialize

Or they might materialize, and it could turn out to be a Bad Thing, which is why people are worried about it. The continuation of the current status quo seems highly unlikely, whatever happens.