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Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

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Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#71

Post by trentmb »

ams6110 wrote: post #2

I quit a job when I felt burnout developing. The cause? Pair programming. I just cannot that close to someone for the majority of the workday without feeling constant low-level stress and annoyance, and I can't focus and think about problems in that setting. When you have to sit in your car for 15 minutes every morning just to summon the resolve to get out and go into the office, something's wrong with your work envi…

> Pair programming.

I haven't had to work in an environment that requires it, and just looking at the wiki page makes it seem miserable.

Do you really just sit at one workstation, with another person watching over your shoulder haggling over each line of code?

I think I'm just not a quick enough thinker for this approach to work.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#72

Post by freddyc »

learning___ wrote: post #66
freddyc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very similar experience where I actually dreaded going into the office because I knew my productivity would fall off a cliff. I slowly found myself accepting the day would be a loss with pointless meetings and other distractions, and got into the habit of doing my "head-down" work later once I got home. My wife pointed out how stupid that was (and frankly, unsustainable) so I pretty quickly jumped ship to a d…

I have the same questions for you as I asked the parent poster, as I mentioned in that post I feel like I am going through something similar to you both right now due to an open office. I also feel like it is hard and rare to get the real "head-down" work done while at work due to constant interruptions. How long at the job did it take you to realize that it caused a constant low level stress? How long did you end up…

I would say it wasn't until after the honeymoon phase of being new and excited wore off and I was given meaningful work to complete. It was a while ago now, but I think it was around the 6-8 week mark that I begun to really notice my workdays were a waste. Being a male I suppressed my feelings :) and the stress slowly built up over the next 6 months until my wife finally pointed out that it wasn't healthy and was impacting my relationship with her and others in my life.

I'm somewhat rare in the sense that I just quit vs lining up a new job first as we had a decent financial buffer, although if I'm being honest I suspect it was a case of jumping before being pushed as the stress was starting to impact my workplace relationships as well (especially with the CEO who was a chronic time-waster that loved pointless meetings).

I've said this elsewhere, but I think it's healthy to mix things up every few years - leaving this company ultimately worked out well for me as I quickly found a new opportunity that opened up doors I had never considered before. I don't know your exact circumstances, but if you have a significant other I think it's worth having a candid conversation with them and work out what the two of you need to live a balanced and fulfilled life. If the workplace stress is leaking into the rest of your life and you find work consuming an unreasonbale amount of your time, it's probably a good sign that it might be worth exploring other opportunities (in my experience, it's much harder to change an organization than it is to just move on). I realize this is different to the "roll-up-your-sleeves" advice elsewhere in this thread, but I view my career as a 40+ year marathon so I embrace the odd twist in the road every now and again.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#73

Post by DHMO »

1. I know it is tough collecting data, but a sample size of 97? It seems like there are a number of larger organizations that would be interested in participating in such a study if kept anonymous, and I really start to wonder about conclusions based on such small sample sizes, especially if it was only done at a single company or in a single geographic region.

Culture between companies and between geographic regions can be really different. For example, if you performed this study in Mumbai in a company where all of those involved in the study were die-hard workers that didn't believe in burnout, that would have seriously skewed the results and they still might have looked good statistically.

2. While it's evident to many that have been working several years or more that people tend to get promoted even when they'd be happier in lower non-managerial positions, and that promotion can end in unhappiness or burnout, what wasn't mentioned in the study is whether you really want power-hungry people in management positions just because it would be a better fit for their motivations.

I had some piss-poor managers that loved power and for them it was a good personality fit.

It might be better in many situations to have someone that doesn't want the power, is knowledgeable of the job of those they are managing, is well-respected, and is a great leader to lead for some years and burnout or leave than it would be to have a power-hungry imbecile with no respect from their team leading for many years because they are a good personality fit.

That said, I think that if you can find someone that is both a good personality fit and a great fit as a leader of the team, then that's better than promoting someone that will burnout, but only as long as it is just information used for decision between candidates and not a determining factor.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#74

Post by DHMO »

learning___ wrote: post #66
freddyc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a very similar experience where I actually dreaded going into the office because I knew my productivity would fall off a cliff. I slowly found myself accepting the day would be a loss with pointless meetings and other distractions, and got into the habit of doing my "head-down" work later once I got home. My wife pointed out how stupid that was (and frankly, unsustainable) so I pretty quickly jumped ship to a d…

I have the same questions for you as I asked the parent poster, as I mentioned in that post I feel like I am going through something similar to you both right now due to an open office. I also feel like it is hard and rare to get the real "head-down" work done while at work due to constant interruptions. How long at the job did it take you to realize that it caused a constant low level stress? How long did you end up…

Something else that can help with being heads-down is medication. It's good to talk with a psych and see whether they can help.

And, don't forget to talk with HR at work if you don't think you'll get fired to see whether there is a way to reduce distractions. Many are more-than-willing to help- whether it's with buying some noise-cancelling earbuds, relocating you, letting you work from home, or another option. If it's a team member or more that is noisy or distracts you, mention that to your manager or HR.

You can go a long way helping yourself.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#75

Post by ldjb »

trentmb wrote: post #71
ams6110 wrote: post #2

I quit a job when I felt burnout developing. The cause? Pair programming. I just cannot that close to someone for the majority of the workday without feeling constant low-level stress and annoyance, and I can't focus and think about problems in that setting. When you have to sit in your car for 15 minutes every morning just to summon the resolve to get out and go into the office, something's wrong with your work envi…

> Pair programming. I haven't had to work in an environment that requires it, and just looking at the wiki page makes it seem miserable. Do you really just sit at one workstation, with another person watching over your shoulder haggling over each line of code? I think I'm just not a quick enough thinker for this approach to work.

I suppose you could describe it that way. Pair programming certainly isn't for everyone, but under the right conditions, it can be very effective. It can be a good means to share ideas and keep up the motivation. That said, it ultimately comes down to whether or not the pair work well together — sometimes you 'click' and everything's great; other times you don't.

A related technique that's quite interesting is mob programming, where an entire team is huddled around a workstation. There's less pressure on each team member as individuals, and the person typing the code is mostly following directions from the others.

Really, the approach to development needs to be appropriate for the dynamics of the team. It might be a good idea to at least try out pair or mob programming to see how effective it is. But you can't just be doing it just because it's the 'hip' thing these days. Also, pair and mob programming can be quite draining, so you may not want to be doing it all day. You could do it for part(s) of the day, and work on your own at your own pace at other times.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#76

Post by gaza3g »

hacker_9 wrote: post #7
ams6110 wrote: post #2

I quit a job when I felt burnout developing. The cause? Pair programming. I just cannot that close to someone for the majority of the workday without feeling constant low-level stress and annoyance, and I can't focus and think about problems in that setting. When you have to sit in your car for 15 minutes every morning just to summon the resolve to get out and go into the office, something's wrong with your work envi…

I had a similar experience that made me quit my last job, but for me it was being in an open plan office. I just found that I felt constantly under someones gaze, and I couldn't look around without looking someone in the eye. It was a low level stress like yours, and was really uncomfortable when trying to work through problems. For example I find closing my eyes helps me visualise a process in my head, but then some…

This is exactly my experience at my current workplace. The people who makes the most noise are the not-programmers and somehow they deserve their own cube because... Developers like myself have to settle with our bull-pen.

Like you, when I face my monitor, the barrier is low enough that I can actually see eye to eye with my co-workers who are sitting opposite me. Oh, and apparently the space behind me is somehow a 'walkway' because it's narrow enough to cut through the other side of the office. Someone can just walk behind me while I'm working and nudge my chair while they're coming through and thus interrupting my focus.

I've talked to my manager multiple times about this and I understand that there's nothing he could have done for me due to the limited office space that we have.

My only option is to switch jobs at this point as I have enough connections that getting a new job probably won't be that hard. But it sucks because my current manager is actually good to work with and I'm kind of on the fence since I might get a shit manager. Is it worth the risk?

(Sorry if this sounds like a rant)

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#77

Post by brokenmachine »

learning___ wrote: post #64
hacker_9 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience that made me quit my last job, but for me it was being in an open plan office. I just found that I felt constantly under someones gaze, and I couldn't look around without looking someone in the eye. It was a low level stress like yours, and was really uncomfortable when trying to work through problems. For example I find closing my eyes helps me visualise a process in my head, but then some…

How long at the job did it take you to realize that it caused a constant low level stress? How long did you end up staying there before leaving? Did you reveal the real reason for leaving? I believe I am going through something similar right now, I have an especially chatty coworker who I sit beside that never shuts up and seems to crave solving problems as a pair much to my productivities detriment. I feel like my t…

That sounds horrible, I feel your pain. I am in the exact same situation however my chatty coworker is not doing the same job, although they always want to be involved/meddle in whatever I'm doing nevertheless.

It's down to the level of reading out loud everything that happens on their computer screen. "Oh, I thought if you clicked there, something else would happen". "Oh, what's that?". blah blah blah. Total verbal diarrhea.

To top it off, they have a very, very loud voice.

If I make any comments to try and stop the incessant nattering, it's met with a snarky comment and only very minimal and temporary change.

My productivity has gone way down, it's almost impossible to get useful work done lots of the time, so I hardly try.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#78

Post by brokenmachine »

crmd wrote: post #56
s_kilk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if these kinds of teams are lead by extroverts, who appreciate having a captive audience for their peopley, extroverted shenaniagns. Having a stable of people who are contractually obligated to put up with their outgoing personalities.

It's not nice to belittle individuals whose brains work differently than your own.

That's true, but the problem is that those outgoing types interfere with the introverts brains from working when they interrupt them constantly.

I would like more segregation! Enjoy your riotous atmosphere over there (far away) please!

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#79

Post by brokenmachine »

quotemstr wrote: post #50
BurningFrog wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love pair programming teams, and would not want to work anywhere else. Of course, a team like that needs to only hire people who are up for that lifestyle.

It takes all types, I guess. I would sooner quit a job than pair program 20% of the time, much less 100%. I do my best work alone, in the dark, in the middle of the night. I don't think there's a tech company on earth that could pay me enough to spend dozens of hours each week sharing a keyboard and monitor with someone.

I agree 100%.

One of the parts of my job that I dislike is watching people mouse around on the screen and try to type.

There's something so frustrating about tracking someone else's mouse movements and typing and the impotent watching when you know where they're meant to click or what they're trying to type, but seeing them flail around, that I find very unpleasant.

Also deflecting people's ideas I would find very tiring, having to explain why you don't want to do something you know is a bad idea, or explain why something you want to do is a good idea. Much more efficient to just do it in the best way you can think of, then have a code review later.

Seems like a waste of resources to limit two people to doing the one job.

Re: Motivational Incongruence and Well-Being at the Workplace

#80

Post by quotemstr »

brokenmachine wrote: post #79
quotemstr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes all types, I guess. I would sooner quit a job than pair program 20% of the time, much less 100%. I do my best work alone, in the dark, in the middle of the night. I don't think there's a tech company on earth that could pay me enough to spend dozens of hours each week sharing a keyboard and monitor with someone.

I agree 100%. One of the parts of my job that I dislike is watching people mouse around on the screen and try to type. There's something so frustrating about tracking someone else's mouse movements and typing and the impotent watching when you know where they're meant to click or what they're trying to type, but seeing them flail around, that I find very unpleasant. Also deflecting people's ideas I would find very ti…

> Much more efficient to just do it in the best way you can think of, then have a code review later.

That's especially true on those occasions that you do something nobody believes is possible.

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