Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

news.ycombinator.com

71–80 of 148 posts

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#71
I have worked for a 100% remote team for 4 years. Most of the concerns I see being posted here, I believe have more to do with the inability to hire well, the inability to efficiently communicate at the inter and intra team level, and the inability to operate as a remote-first company.

Below I document how to successfully run a remote company. I work for a successful startup receiving regular accolades for our product.

Hiring:

Never hire very junior unless the person shows extreme talent combined with superior communication skills. Generally you are looking for people that are: highly efficient, organized, responsible, disciplined and able to stay on task with limited oversight. They should be self-starters with numerous projects they can point to that they delivered on their own.

Product engineering:

Near all communication happens in Slack/Hipchat/etc. Group meetings, when including remote people, happen in skype / Hangouts. We use shared google docs to brainstorm product and document specs. We use Trello to translate those high level specs into actionable stories. Use github to organize code reviews. You need a results-driven mentality. What did a developer deliver this week? This month? Weekly standups on Google Hangouts + monthly 1-on-1's with each developer can give you a good sense of how well a person is performing.

Culture-building:

Have in-person meetups 2-4 x a year for beneficial face-time and for people to get to know each other better on a personal level. Have monthly video conf/hangouts on non-work technical topics where people rotate presenting. Have a separate monthly book club to discuss technical or nontechnical topics.

Onboarding new people:

First, never hire very junior people. When a new person is hired, have them do 20 min 1-on-1's with all team members to get to know each other and their job role. Pair them up with a another person to work on a shared project. Have them paired for several projects before releasing them on the own.

I am happy to answer any specific questions if you have any.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#73

I have worked for a 100% remote team for 4 years. Most of the concerns I see being posted here, I believe have more to do with the inability to hire well, the inability to efficiently communicate at the inter and intra team level, and the inability to operate as a remote-first company. Below I document how to successfully run a remote company. I work for a successful startup receiving regular accolades for our produc…

What is your team size?

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#74
I will make the opposite statement about telecommuting. I have a rule that my team must telecommute. Everyone on the team with few exceptions must telecommute at least one day a week. Here's why. We have the technology for people to be remote. We've had it for years. I used to do it at larger companies, and honestly it was a pain at times. This is exactly why I make people do it. I don't want to lose people or lose out on ones that would be great, because we don't know how to handle remote employees. I have remote workers now that are vital to the team, and we all need to know the pain points they suffer, so we can fix it. It didn't occur to me we had issues until he brought it up in a weekly meeting to me that he felt left out on side conversations. Now we all do it, so we all experience the problems and we can figure out how to fix it. Really this is our approach to everything. Anything we have issues with we practice until we get it right and anytime we see room for improvement we make it.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#75

I am a remote worker and if I ever ran a company I wouldn't allow telecommuting. Here is why: When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an…

As a developer who has worked both solely on site for years in some jobs, and solely remotely in other jobs, I can say that hallway conversations, random non-deliberate, unplanned communication has absolutely killed productivity for me and all of the software teammates I've ever worked with. I've never gotten any kind of insight or better informal / intuitive understanding of a business need, a blocking issue, a painpoint I can help a colleague out with. I've only ever experienced my workflow being disrupted at the whim and fancy of other employees looking to vent about something, chat about non-work topics, or address superficial issues that should be handled asynchronously through email or chat applications. And, of course, I have also been the lumbering coworker who has carried out these bad distractions myself on occasions too, sometimes even unwittingly when I overestimate the importance of what I have to say or underestimate the importance of what someone else is engrossed in at the moment.

Lots of people talk about how an open environment, where there is violent, perpetual collaboration thrust upon you, is supposedly good for information sharing, keeping people on the same page, allowing everyone visibility into many other teams.

It's just complete bullshit. I'm sorry to describe it in such terms but there is no other way to put it. It does not ever, not at any time, offer valuable information exchange that would not be equally as effective with deliberate communication -- even deliberate in-person communication like a planned meeting or a planned conversation about a dedicated topic.

I've never seen or heard of any situation where the pan-everything violently un-turn-off-able stream of never ending "collaboration" helps anyone.

What it does do is allow the people who are in charge of schedules -- generally managers whose status in the firm dictates that they are entitled to interrupt others or restructure work priorities in an ad hoc manner without conforming to any policy about it or even having to give any justification for it -- the opportunity to do whatever they want in terms of interrupting and redirecting people.

I've come to believe that this kind of schedule flailing is just a device by which managers (a) try to make it look like they're doing a lot of work because gee whiz look how I had to whip everybody's schedules all around and tell them about That Thing That Just Happened or That Thing Some Business Person Needs Somewhere OMGzzz -- or (b) it assuages their personal insecurity that they aren't relevant enough to the specifics of the workflow beneath them; like, if there was really an efficient meritocracy then the high-performing subordinates would get paid more, like the way basketball players get paid more than the coach generally even when it's a good coach doing a good job. Since business offers less efficient opportunities for rent-seeking and more chances to obfuscate, the manager can use ad hoc interruptions and reprioritizations as a sort of performative gasp for justifying how important they are and how they are deserving of higher compensation.

I do agree with you about remote working being a limit to upward mobility -- mostly because of the sort of status effects I described above. You have to be physically present in an office because it's a display of fealty. You roll over and expose your belly to the bosses every time you smile, nod, and laugh at their completely pointless vocal interruptions that could have been handled asynchronously over chat or email. That fealty is what gets you promoted, and it's way harder to signal fealty when you work remotely. Taking selfies of you laying on your back on the floor at home with your belly exposed is probably not a good substitute.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#76

I am a remote worker and if I ever ran a company I wouldn't allow telecommuting. Here is why: When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an…

> When I was at the office for a decade, 90% of the insight and productivity came from informal conversations in the hallway, lunches and things I overheard in passing. As a remote worker, nearly all communication is very deliberate so I am not exposed to those ad-hoc conversations. Everything is very deliberate: I receive an email, a text or a meeting. The net result is my personal career becomes very confined and stunted... I become that guy who does that one thing rather than a team-member who has an awareness of everything and the ability to jump in as needed.

As a remote worker this is very true. I actually took a trip down to the main office this week (first time in two years since I was hired on), and the amount of insight I gained from wandering the office, talking to managers and just interacting with people on the smoking patio (I've learned this is always the easiest place to get a pulse on what is going on in the company, smokers don't like sitting around with a group of people sucking down nicotine in dead silence, there's always conversation going on). I easily found 10 new projects we could put on the backlog, and that's being conservative.

Actually, after talking with my director about it I think I'm going to start taking trips down there a little more frequently - even so we do have fairly good communication over email, phone and IM to a couple of teams within the company we work closely with, and it has lead to some projects we otherwise wouldn't have done (rolled out Salesforce to a subset of users who were dying without a proper CRM trying to keep track of all of the people we need to contact at our clients when things go awry), but it's still a lot more limited than what I got done in a week of talking with people.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#77
Easy - my ex-employer's HR department has an explicit policy of promoting when your staff grows. Part of it is a spreadsheet exercise at the end of the year and part of it is optics. The greater the staff I can show the higher the change of promotion. That was the deciding factor. Period.

I left that place because it was non-sensical, but it was a major employer in Connecticut, so i wonder how many other major employers have a similar policy.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#78
post #14

Not exactly what you are asking for, but I'll throw it in here: I run a fully remote company, and most of the objections I've heard from others we've found workaround for. The biggest unsolved problem is whiteboarding - there is no good collaborative online whiteboarding solution that doesn't require a lot of expensive equipment to be deployed to everyone.

> The biggest unsolved problem is whiteboarding - there is no good collaborative online whiteboarding solution that doesn't require a lot of expensive equipment to be deployed to everyone. Maybe my company is just weird, but we don't use whiteboards all that much. At least for code our preferred collaboration method is pairing, which isn't as hard over a network. We write NLP software, and most of our whiteboard usag…

We don't either, but it comes up occasionally. Sometimes when figuring out a large architecture, it's just easier to be able to draw it out. So far we've solved the problem by waiting until we see each other in person every few months, so it hasn't been a huge issue, just the main issue we can't seem to solve well.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#79

Are there any success stories of early stage high growth startups that were started by a remote team? At least in the startup world, most people are concerned that you will miss that zeal and watercooler chat magic that is critical to early stage companies. I don't think anybody cares too much about your 1000th engineer being remote, the organizational DNA has already been set a long time ago.

I worked at a node.js startup Strongloop before it was purchased by IBM (https://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/47577.wss)

We were primarily a remote work company as part of the DNA - it was great and productive.

We were small and mostly senior technical folks so the level of trust was pretty high.

People were located in the Czech republic, the Netherlands, Vancouver, Minnesota, China, and Cali.

Best work experience I have had by far.

Re: Ask HN: If you don't permit telecommuting, why?

#80

I have worked for a 100% remote team for 4 years. Most of the concerns I see being posted here, I believe have more to do with the inability to hire well, the inability to efficiently communicate at the inter and intra team level, and the inability to operate as a remote-first company. Below I document how to successfully run a remote company. I work for a successful startup receiving regular accolades for our produc…

That is all great if your HR department is fine hiring senior workers. My previous HR would rather have a $50/hr rate card and I hire 3 inexperienced workers than 1 experienced one at $120/hr
Post reply on HN