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Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

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Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#71

Post by btilly »

kaeluka wrote: post #34
btilly wrote: post #23

I personally know several successful professional women who have a policy of refusing to belong to any women-only groups. Their reason is that in their experience such groups are populated by people seeking reassurance. The result is that they offer the "support" of lowered expectations. Which won't help you succeed. One also pointed out to me that if a group of men were to form a men's only business club, that would…

> would be seen as sexist. "would be seen" talks about everyone, and I obviously can't speak for everyone. I'll try to anyway: A men-only club would be judged differently since men are perceived to be the privileged class -- a concern would be that in this club, unfairly obtained advantages are carried on. A women-only club is much less of an issue, because women are perceived to be disadvantaged as-is. Having them o…

You have indeed captured the standard reasoning. But when a group of people forms an exclusive club, the result is inevitably politics. And politics of a kind that is bad for everyone. It is bad when people in power do it. But it is also bad when people who are disenfranchised do it.

The specific comment in question came about as follows. It was triggered by her recommending a book club to me, then having the organizer ask me not to come "because it would change the dynamic too much to have a man there." This lead to the woman who recommended it to me dropping out of said club because it became something which she did not wish to be associated with.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#72

Post by jonnybgood »

drcoopster wrote: post #54
jonnybgood wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't think it's the goal of a CEO of a social organization to give a talk on tech issues. Their focus is on social issues, so I don't see this as a good example.

Perhaps then she shouldn't have been giving a talk at a tech conference.

That falls under the purview of the organizers.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#73

Post by smt88 »

jondubois wrote: post #61

I don't think women have it particularly hard in tech. Some aspects are harder but other aspects are easier.

Some of the "harder" aspects are being sexually harassed and intimidated in ways that aren't possible to do to men. I have a friend who was raped by her boss, and then he raped another coworker. They were afraid of getting fired, so they didn't tell anyone. Finally her friend spoke up and was fired.

(This was at a VC-backed, Silicon Valley firm, by the way.)

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#74

Post by btilly »

xenophonf wrote: post #66
not_anit_woman wrote: post #48

Your right, women get hired more easily and get paid more, so it is very much not symmetrical.

At least in the U.S., women get paid less: http://www.aauw.org/research/the-simple-truth-about-the-gend... I couldn't quickly locate a study comparing employment rates. Perhaps you have data backing up your claims?

The claim was pretty clearly meant as sarcasm.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#75

Post by fdsaaf »

Frondo wrote: post #49
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow I don't have anywhere near the empathy for those yokels mouthing off, that others seem to have. Real dipshits. No way they are innocently unthoughtful or unconsidered. They seem to have issues.

I don't blame them for personally considering, reflecting on it, and adopting a view of women that permits sexism. I think the culture is still deeply sexist. I think that's the default position. I think they were just aping the world around them, unthinkingly. I do blame them for not paying attention to all the women in the world saying "look guys there is a problem that we are experiencing," but you know what? That…

> I think the culture is still deeply sexist

What's also deeply embedded in many circles is that acknowledging any difference between men and women is "sexist". I've seen people called sexist for acknowledging that using attractive women in advertising leads to increased clickthrough rates. Should we deny the evidence of our own eyes?

You're complaining about people "aping the world around them". Isn't that just called acknowledging reality? I understand and sympathize with the desire to make the world more fair. I think cultural crusaders have gone well past that point, however, and are now asking people to deny real facts. They're applying social pressure to make people make false claims about the world.

Don't these people realize that using the thread of ostracism and unemployment to suppress earnestly-held, non-malicious beliefs rooted in honest observations of the real world is just going to lead to resentment and a massive backlash against not only the overreach, but against any actual bias?

People who call everything "sexist" are bringing about a world where everything will be sexist.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#76

Post by gmarx »

Frondo wrote: post #28

Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming inc…

Granted, people should not be distracting class clowns during a conference. The line about the daughter? It's impossible to tell if it was funny without knowing what the speaker had just said.

This entire post appears to be a statement about how female speakers are unfairly treated at tech conferences, but in reality it is the poster saying "look everyone, I'm a hero"

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#77

Post by DSMan195276 »

fdsaaf wrote: post #58
Frondo wrote: post #28

Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming inc…

Policing speech like that just breeds resentment. You not only guaranteed that these people later made the same comments to each other in private, but also inched a bit closer to resenting people like you and your entire cause. Mind your own business. You have no right to interfere in a conversation among friends, even one that triggers you. If you want to encourage change in the world, be the change and set an examp…

That's just dumb. It would be one thing if they were having a quiet conversation among themselves whispering back and forth and were told to stop. But clearly OP could hear them, they weren't being quiet. And allowing such behavior to go on where people can clearly hear it is the same thing as condoning it. That's besides the fact that if you're going to act like that during a talk, you shouldn't be in the room anyway because you're being a distraction to everybody else.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#78

Post by bllguo »

fdsaaf wrote: post #58
Frondo wrote: post #28

Personal story time...I was at a recent conference, listening to men, women given talks. One of the women, in her talk, uses an interaction with her daughter as the framing narrative for the talk (imagine Socrates and Glaucon, only this woman and her daughter). Almost immediately, three guys to my right start making fun of the speaker, sotto voce, making all manner of little jokes to themselves, that are becoming inc…

Policing speech like that just breeds resentment. You not only guaranteed that these people later made the same comments to each other in private, but also inched a bit closer to resenting people like you and your entire cause. Mind your own business. You have no right to interfere in a conversation among friends, even one that triggers you. If you want to encourage change in the world, be the change and set an examp…

What? OF COURSE he has a right to interfere, he can say whatever he damn well pleases. Furthermore, all he said was to knock it off; you seem to imply he lectured them or something similar.

He set an example by demonstrating their behavior was not socially acceptable.

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#79

Post by clifanatic »

grb423 wrote: post #19
sakaloda wrote: post #13

Diversity in tech will never work. You are going against reality if you think everyone has the same aptitude to be good at math/engineering. Look at the data below. SAT Math by race [1] : - Asian/Pacific Islander = 598 - White = 534 - Mexican American = 461 - Black = 429 SAT Math by gender [2] : - Men = 537 - Women = 503 [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171 [2] http://www.fairtest.org/sat-race-gender-…

Wow the bigotry. What is wrong with you? These tests are created and scored by privileged white people.

... if so, then why do asians appear to dominate them?

Re: Why I won’t give talks about being a woman in tech

#80

Post by dang »

cheez0r wrote: post #29

That sure sounds like what the tech industry always seems to prefer: walk the walk, not talk the talk; software, not slideware; etc. Be a strong tech woman and you don't have to advocate for them; your actions speak louder than words. Just ask Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12129860 and marked it off-topic.
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