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The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

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Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#71

Post by t_fatus »

foxbarrington wrote: post #28
t_fatus wrote: post #5

Make it three-dimensionalby adding a fourth circle with C-level skills and you've got the CTO diagram ! Seriously this is by far the smartest thing I've read associated with "senior developer", and can be of great use when hiring decisions need to be made.

What are some C-level skills?

Probably not the best word ... More like : * be able to stand in front of investors and explain where you want to see the company in 5Y, and why * create a great culture everybody share * speak a language sales people, HR people, tech people, devops people, legal people can understand, and be curious about their different jobs

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#72

Post by uola »

careersuicide wrote: post #54
uola wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative solution is what we have today when large tech companies prefer to hire people from high status schools.

Yeah, but part of my point, which I suppose I could have made more explicit, was that I don't have to work for a large tech company. Or any company at all. I can, if I really want to, strike out on my own and do it myself. That's how I got started getting paid to program. That path isn't for everyone, but I think that it's possible at all is a wonderful thing. I get a sinking feeling in my gut when I even contemplate…

I unfortunately think that the reason why programming has been accessible is because we didn't know better. The standard for what can be publicly accessible on the Internet or what will compete for users attention is much higher today. I think for programming to remain open there must be formal ways to acquire knowledge or knowing the quality of a piece of software.

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#74

Post by serge2k »

moron4hire wrote: post #68
serge2k wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I typically suggest to them that they start at 10hrs/wk while at their current job to see if they like the work. ha. Good one. oh wait you're serious. Noooooooooooooooooooooooo

I do what works for me. The best people I've ever hired were all this way. I don't think I deserve such shitpost replies in return.

The whole idea of "just work for us for a while" is so ridiculously employee hostile I couldn't resist mocking it.

The idea that I should risk my current job for a chance at working elsewhere is terrible.

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#75

Post by sctb »

alexeiz wrote: post #73

> Since existing biases in tech are strongly and undeniably tilted toward white males... Ah, the usual social justice crap. Nothing of value here.

Please comment civilly and substantively on HN or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#76

Post by lliamander »

ubernostrum wrote: post #70
lliamander wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the parent comment, but I will say that while there are plenty of developers with "X years experience" who are not operating at a senior level, it is unrealistic to expect that someone will be operating at senior level without those years of experience. I liked their ideas around direction given vs. direction required. I liked their distrust of the notion of "cultural fit". I liked that they identif…

This is the kind of thing that bugs me, though, this sort of software-engineer exceptionalism. We like to pretend that somehow we're the only ones who have complex projects with tight deadlines and changing requirements. We like to pretend that if you haven't been coding since you were in diapers you can't possibly have enough context or experience or sense of the history of tech to make good decisions. We like to pr…

I'm going to make myself very plain: For anyone who intends to pursue a technical/engineering career path, as opposed to switching to the managerial/entrepreneurial path, you're going to need to master some very difficult technical subjects. The point of calling a profession "engineering" implies that there is quite a bit of depth to the technical side. Therefore, calling someone a "senior" engineer implies that they have a good grasp of that deep skill-set.

> This is the kind of thing that bugs me, though, this sort of software-engineer exceptionalism. We like to pretend that somehow we're the only ones who have complex projects with tight deadlines and changing requirements.

In other news, the lead civil engineer on the local levy project has only two years experience and their only training was an associates degree in CAD, but don't worry because they used to be a lawyer and so they know all about "shifting requirements, teamwork and pragmatic approaches to dealing with a client's wants".

>They're bad at it because they got a bunch of ideology about theoretical purity shoveled into their heads in college instead of a bunch of pragmatism.

Others have addressed this better than I can[0].

[0]http://weblog.raganwald.com/2008/01/no-disrespect.html

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#77

Post by nemo »

hackits wrote: post #55
nemo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what?

You made the following statement `Health care in countries that have the best results are also heavily regulated` give a citation backing up your statement.

I mad a set of statements, so I was asking which you wanted cited. The one you're interested in is pretty much like citing evidence that the sky is blue, but if you'd like to see it, here's a ranking.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information...

The reams of regulations for the health care systems of other country's health care systems are mostly not hard to find. You can start there, and then check here for more details:

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/files/publications/f...

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#78

Post by ubernostrum »

lliamander wrote: post #76
ubernostrum wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of thing that bugs me, though, this sort of software-engineer exceptionalism. We like to pretend that somehow we're the only ones who have complex projects with tight deadlines and changing requirements. We like to pretend that if you haven't been coding since you were in diapers you can't possibly have enough context or experience or sense of the history of tech to make good decisions. We like to pr…

I'm going to make myself very plain: For anyone who intends to pursue a technical/engineering career path, as opposed to switching to the managerial/entrepreneurial path, you're going to need to master some very difficult technical subjects. The point of calling a profession "engineering" implies that there is quite a bit of depth to the technical side. Therefore, calling someone a "senior" engineer implies that they…

Others have addressed this better than I can[0].

And the very first comment on that post is a better rebuttal than I have time to write up:

But working as a consultant to a lot of big companies (and a lot of small ones) over the past few years, I don't think the degree matters so much. The thing that matters to the exclusion of everything else is which side you're on: are you working to make something great or are you collecting a paycheck and trying to stay out of the line of fire?

A CS degree, X years of experience in tech, writing PDP-11 assembly in your diapers, etc. are terrible indicators of which side of that divide someone will be on.

Re: The Conjoined Triangles of Senior-Level Development

#79

Post by badminton1 »

sanderjd wrote: post #20
badminton1 wrote: post #6

"Senior developer" is a job title. Think of it as army ranks, each national army might have their own names and ways or promoting others. Some people also argue what is the difference between calling yourself coder, programmer, software developer and software engineer, and even taking the debate as far as questioning if a software engineer is an actual engineer. To be honest, these debates are sort of empty unless th…

I think you've missed the point of the article. I thought it was going the "debate over words" direction you're responding to, but it ended up being a lot less about what the word means, and a lot more about what the concept of "seniority" in our field entails, which is a lot more interesting.

Well, I respectfully disagree with the Venn diagram in the article. You can be at the center of that Venn diagram and still not be a senior engineer.
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