Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#71

Post by erichocean » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

nibs wrote: post #67

erichocean wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for sure, I didn't mean to imply that Jobs was _only_ on the spectrum. I work in film (in addition to tech) and know a lot of people on the spectrum that I think people who only meet autistic programmers would have difficulty recognizing. Even in TFA, one of the descriptors is: > They generally marry the first girl they date Maybe, but in my experience, that's only one specific kind of person with Aspergers (who I…

Completely agree with the Sigma thing. I found the PUA stuff (my interest was more evo pysch) so frustratingly irrelevant and misguided until I read about the Sigma reproductive model. I think the difference (clinically speaking) between narcissists and aspergers is the need for admiration. No one I know with aspergers wants any attention, basically ever. I think Jobs is more of an INFJ narcissist. As opposed to more…

Thanks for the comments, I don't find many people who are into this stuff AND don't have cartoonish views of people on the spectrum.

I wanted to share this next bit because you seem like you might appreciate it. At least it took me awhile to figure it out. :)

In my experience, Myers Briggs is most helpful if you think of all eight attributes as independent capabilities each person can have, and then rate each on a scale, say, from 1-10. From each pairing, the one with the highest value determines their type, e.g. INFJ.

So, I would agree that Jobs is an INFJ (let's say that all are "10s"), but that doesn't mean that his ESTP traits are all pegged at zero. Instead, you might say Jobs has E=5, S=2, T=8, and P=6 in addition to I=10, N=10, F=10, J=11.

Mostly what the dominant Myers Briggs type gets you is a way to determine a person's typical problem solving pattern. NFs feel (and get excited) about a solution first, then convince (think) themselves why it's right.

OTOH My wife is an ENTP, and she thinks things through first and then gets excited—the opposite of me. If I wasn't aware of the underlying dynamics, I'd get super frustrated every time I brought her some exciting thing only to get calm analysis and no excitement (at least, at first).

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#72

Post by Bartweiss » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #24

With all the discrimination and bullying going around, I think it is good that someone has something nice to say about autistic programmers. Like Ian Murdock who founded Debian and recently committed suicide had Asperger's Syndrome. Despite obvious impressive technical skills, life probably wasn't easy for him. Most companies favor hiring average programmers that fit the mold over "weird people" even if they are amaz…

I was pretty surprised by how much time was devoted to rebutting "everyone autistic is a good engineer" when all of the quotes cited (including the infamous ppt) were claiming "every good engineer is somewhat autistic".

I don't buy that latter claim either, and it's worth talking about how the "autistic programming genius" stereotype is harmful to everyone, autistic or not, but writing an article that's centered around committing the base rate fallacy doesn't mean much of anything.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#73

Post by serge2k » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

mads wrote: post #44

nibs wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is definetely possible to be both.

Was Gates actually the technical wizard that he has been made out to be? It is an honest question. I really dont know. I am sure he had some great technical insights, but I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that he was actually a genius coder or engineer.

Joel Spolsky certainly thinks so

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#74

Post by mads » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

tedks wrote: post #69

mads wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Gates actually the technical wizard that he has been made out to be? It is an honest question. I really dont know. I am sure he had some great technical insights, but I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that he was actually a genius coder or engineer.

He wrote FAT on an airplane. Make of that what you will.

Sounds very dramatic and something a narcissist would come up with.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#75

Post by Qantourisc » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

optimuspaul wrote: post #13

I think some of the best programmers are very collaborative and not at all introverted. It's just stupid to generalize like that though. When I'm putting together teams I find I get the best results when I have a mix of nut jobs from across the spectrum of programmer personalities... except brogrammers, hate those guys ;)

I could be mistaking,but there is a difference between being introvert, and acting it. Also being introvert doesn't mean not being collaborative.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#76

Post by aab0 » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 5:02 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #54

aab0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "haven't learned wage-slave mentality yet" > In the ensuing outrage, a PowerPoint presentation written by St. John surfaced which included a slide in which he referred to engineers with Asperger syndrome as being "the holy grail" of hires. "They work like machines," he wrote, "don’t engage in politics, don’t develop attitudes and never change jobs." Someone needs to send all these people patio11's guides to salary…

If you haven't seen an aspie thats aggressive and disagreeable, then you haven't seen an aspie outside his/her comfort zone.

Salary negotiation is outside their comfort zone; yet it doesn't seem to help.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#77

Post by nibs » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 5:14 PM UTC

erichocean wrote: post #71

nibs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree with the Sigma thing. I found the PUA stuff (my interest was more evo pysch) so frustratingly irrelevant and misguided until I read about the Sigma reproductive model. I think the difference (clinically speaking) between narcissists and aspergers is the need for admiration. No one I know with aspergers wants any attention, basically ever. I think Jobs is more of an INFJ narcissist. As opposed to more…

Thanks for the comments, I don't find many people who are into this stuff AND don't have cartoonish views of people on the spectrum. I wanted to share this next bit because you seem like you might appreciate it. At least it took me awhile to figure it out. :) In my experience, Myers Briggs is most helpful if you think of all eight attributes as independent capabilities each person can have, and then rate each on a sc…

Interesting. That is actually quite helpful. My fiance is INFJ and Aspergers, and I am ENTJ and not Aspergers. She gets excited and blurts things out, where as my excitement builds as my mental model of something does.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#78

Post by bitwize » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

wobbleblob wrote: post #45

bitwize wrote: post #25

As they say, if you've met one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. It's not just that autistics are all different the same way allistics are all different; compared to the breadth of the entire autism spectrum, allistics are all pretty much the same . You never know what you're going to get when picking from the autistic box of chocolates. Maybe a savant, maybe a person of average intelligence but remark…

I like your comment about cubicles being a luxury. I don't know why they became a funny cliche of office horror. You don't have to be autistic to be driven mad by the constant interruptions enforced by office culture. When they tried to make pair programming mandatory, most of us decided to ignore it. Can't ignore the daily standup though. It just means I will not be able to concentrate until 10:30 every day. If that…

> When they tried to make pair programming mandatory, most of us decided to ignore it.

Oh, it's still doing its job because now it becomes a speed trap. Failure to pair program then becomes something to put on your pink slip when management fears the possible repercussions of "we just don't like you".

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#79

Post by serge2k » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

mads wrote: post #70

digi_owl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that he would sit down, read, and annotate, a technical spec, and then grill the reporter during the next day meeting on technical aspects, yeah he was. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html

Yes, he could read a spec and I read this before. Dont get me wrong. I have a lot of respect for both Joel and Bill Gates. I just dont see this particular incident as anything special. Bill Gates didn't actually do anything except annotate the spec and throw some ideas out there.

> I have a lot of respect for both Joel and Bill Gates.

Except you question his technical ability, ignore/excuse evidence of said ability, and call him a narcissist.

Re: Dispelling myths about the autistic programmer

#80

Post by cmdrfred » Sat, Jul 09, 2016, 5:44 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #24

With all the discrimination and bullying going around, I think it is good that someone has something nice to say about autistic programmers. Like Ian Murdock who founded Debian and recently committed suicide had Asperger's Syndrome. Despite obvious impressive technical skills, life probably wasn't easy for him. Most companies favor hiring average programmers that fit the mold over "weird people" even if they are amaz…

> I can say that almost all rapists are men. Obviously that doesn't mean that all men are rapists, it means that the probability that a given rapist is a man is very high.

You can't determine the probability of an individual like that, at least without more data. I can say that almost all the people who contract HIV are african american or men who have sex with men, that does not mean that the probability of any given homosexual or black person having HIV is high (greater than 50%). The vast majority of men have never raped a woman and will never rape a woman.