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Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

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Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#71

Post by potatolicious »

kevindeasis wrote: post #67
udba wrote: post #30

As an engineering student at UWaterloo it's pretty depressing to watch most of the best upper year engineers finish their studies and then abandon Canada for SV. There's logic in it for them: American companies are offering huge sums of money by Canadian standards, the weather is nicer, and the opportunities seem better. If I didn't have serious reservations about living in the US, I would probably do the same. Howev…

Out of curiosity, how does the process of job hunting work in the Ontario area if they get a job in SV? Does the SV company offer a visa permit or does the student apply for work permit in advance?

In almost all cases a work permit must be tied to a job offer, so it's not possible to apply for a work permit in advance.

You interview, you get the offer, and the lawyers at the company apply for the visa for you.

There are some exception cases where an open-ended visa is possible, but this is uncommon - but if you're famous in the industry you may qualify.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#72

Post by grandalf »

I've worked with Joist's CTO before and he's got a very high ethical standard and strong commitment to teams he's a part of. I'm sure this decision was not an easy one.

Bottom line, we need freer trade to make international boundaries irrelevant to business.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#73

Post by ska »

DanHulton wrote: post #48
udba wrote: post #30

As an engineering student at UWaterloo it's pretty depressing to watch most of the best upper year engineers finish their studies and then abandon Canada for SV. There's logic in it for them: American companies are offering huge sums of money by Canadian standards, the weather is nicer, and the opportunities seem better. If I didn't have serious reservations about living in the US, I would probably do the same. Howev…

As I hear it, it all comes down to financing. Talent's easy to find, sure, but raising money anywhere in Canada vs. SF is no contest. It's still a shitty way to treat people, but I can see why companies still want to be in the valley. I just wish we could attract more investors to Toronto. There are a lot of super-psyched tech and design folk in this city.

It's not quite that simple - for example Canada has a number of advantages and good programs for early stage startups. What is true is there isn't much access to SV style VC funds, so if your model is dependent on that, you have a problem. Other sources can be pretty good though.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#75

Post by potatolicious »

setheron wrote: post #63
cm3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it different than Amazon Seattle? I mean, is there a reasonable balance between work and life?

I worked at Amazon for four years and absolutely loved it. I never understood the work/life balance problem people had. Usually those that struggled were just weak engineers to begin with and felt like they had to put in 10-12 hours a day just to avoid being put on a performance improvement plan / laid off (i.e. wrong fit to begin with)

I'm sympathetic to the idea that people have different experiences with companies - especially large ones with a lot of variance between orgs and teams, but this:

> "Usually those that struggled were just weak engineers to begin with"

just seems like an awful thing to say that is almost certainly untrue.

Full disclosure: I spent 2 years at Amazon and knew many extremely strong engineers who struggled, as well as some who had great experiences.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#76

Post by mabbo »

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #53

I relocated to Toronto SPECIFICALLY to work for Joist, exactly one week ago. I was laid off along with everyone else within 6 days of working for them! Prior to that I was working in the USA for a few years; I'm now in a position where I have to figure out next steps with regards to my career :/ I'm still unsure why they hired me and brought me down here? I'm also hoping that they pay me for my time there (I worked m…

Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company. There's lots of jobs here for developers, and it's just a great city (imho).

I posted below, but the company I work for is hiring in Toronto and the pay is pretty good for this city.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#77

Post by coroutines »

MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #53

I relocated to Toronto SPECIFICALLY to work for Joist, exactly one week ago. I was laid off along with everyone else within 6 days of working for them! Prior to that I was working in the USA for a few years; I'm now in a position where I have to figure out next steps with regards to my career :/ I'm still unsure why they hired me and brought me down here? I'm also hoping that they pay me for my time there (I worked m…

Dude... You deserve a lot. :(

Take all their red staplers.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#78

Post by jgw »

wyager wrote: post #56
udba wrote: post #30

As an engineering student at UWaterloo it's pretty depressing to watch most of the best upper year engineers finish their studies and then abandon Canada for SV. There's logic in it for them: American companies are offering huge sums of money by Canadian standards, the weather is nicer, and the opportunities seem better. If I didn't have serious reservations about living in the US, I would probably do the same. Howev…

Canada is a country, not a dear friend. Workers and companies owe nothing to it. If it makes more sense for someone to leave, then more power to them. Canada can either try to make itself more appealing or deal with people leaving.

Re: "owe nothing to it", I respectfully disagree.

Canadians at Waterloo enjoy a heavily subsidized world-class education, at the tax-payer's expense, then leave to contribute nothing to the economy that produced them.

Interestingly, some also come back later in life to enjoy subsidized health care to which they've also never contributed.

I wonder if there's a way to structure post-secondary education subsidies as a sort of debt that you can pay off by either remaining employed in Canada, or in cash if you decide to leave.

Disclosure: UW Comp Eng '98 grad, still in Canada.

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#79

Post by paulgb »

keithwhor wrote: post #66
robinson7d wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option: offer SF "senior-level talent" salaries in Toronto. They'll be spending more than this by relocating and then hiring down there anyway. I expect they'd find that there's plenty of talent already in Toronto, or willing to move. To me, it seems pretty obvious that the move to SF is more about image than about whom they can hire.

I'm not sure. If you're in San Francisco you can hire from any major metropolitan area in North America, and probably the world. Relocation tends not to be that big of an issue - it's Silicon Valley, there's tremendous opportunity. It's not just that the "talent" is already in SF, it's that the talent from all over the world is drawn to the Valley by brand recognition alone.

I disagree, I know a lot of people who reluctantly moved to the Bay Area for salary who would rather be elsewhere. The Bay Area appeals to some people, but not everybody

(also, hey Keith :))

Re: Joist lays off 60 employees in Toronto as company relocates to SF

#80

Post by justanother »

mabbo wrote: post #76
MOARDONGZPLZ wrote: post #53

I relocated to Toronto SPECIFICALLY to work for Joist, exactly one week ago. I was laid off along with everyone else within 6 days of working for them! Prior to that I was working in the USA for a few years; I'm now in a position where I have to figure out next steps with regards to my career :/ I'm still unsure why they hired me and brought me down here? I'm also hoping that they pay me for my time there (I worked m…

Don't be thrown off of Toronto by one douchebag company. There's lots of jobs here for developers, and it's just a great city (imho). I posted below, but the company I work for is hiring in Toronto and the pay is pretty good for this city.

+1 for the above. This sure was a dick move, but from the past week OP has probably already discovered Toronto is an amazing, clean, and courteous city (from my limited experience) compared to many others. Don't know what their work/visa situation is, but it's worth shopping around for another job and giving the place another shot.
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