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The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

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Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often taken a drink or a snack from the office for later in the evening or the next day. Never considered that this might be frowned upon. On the other hand, taking large quantities of items frequently seems like an abuse of a perk.

I've heard multiple times that taking food home is "ungoogly". I can't remember exactly where, but I think at least once in one of the many training/ethics videos I had to watch.

It's OK to take food onto the bus ride home if you're working, or would have missed dinner because of the long ride. Taking large amounts of food to feed multiple family members on a regular basis is not.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#72
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, the author was neither hired nor fired by Google. The author worked on campus for a contractor.

That's even worse, he's jeopardizing the perk of contractors being extended that privilege.

Per the article, some contractors were not extended various privileges during the period the author worked on Google's campus. The author's curiosity regarding the differential access to Google facilities, equipment, and food precipitated his termination.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#73
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's even worse, he's jeopardizing the perk of contractors being extended that privilege.

Per the article, some contractors were not extended various privileges during the period the author worked on Google's campus. The author's curiosity regarding the differential access to Google facilities, equipment, and food precipitated his termination.

Never the less he jeopardized the status for others who didn't have a say in his unilateral activism.

On the one hand I understand his sense of juvenile fairness, on the other he's jeopardizing the benefits extended to a class of workers who the company is not contractually obligated to provide.

Back a long time ago MS temps sued MS for keeping them as "permanent temps". One of the arguments was MS treated them in many ways as direct employees (meetings, outings, perks, etc.) The result of that is that temps are now treated as temps (curbed perks so as not to blend/blur the distinction). Be careful what you wish for.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#74
post #8

I think the problem with Google is that it advertised (still does?) itself, in a rather believable way, as being be diverse, fun, everyone working together -- developers, janitors and artists all holding hands creating a brigher tomorrow and perhaps fighting against evil. Well it worked for me back then, I really did believe Google was "Don't Be Evil" kind of company and so on, vis-a-vis say Microsoft, or say Walmart…

I'm getting tired of hypocrisy being held up as the ultimate sin. The world is more complex than that. Humans cannot fully logically integrate EVERYTHING they believe at the same time, it's just biologically impossible. Expecting people to be 100% consistent 100% of the time is ultimately silly. And for companies, well they are ultimately just groups of people. So the same issue. Also, open and tolerant doesn't mean…

> I'm getting tired of hypocrisy being held up as the ultimate sin.

I didn't say it is the ultimate sin. So should it not be criticized and pointed out? It is like saying "well murder is worse than theft, so don't talk about theft". That's not how it works. I think every culture and society has a strong bias against hypocrisy and it is a popular topic in folk stories and culture (say making fun or criticizing hypocrites).

Just like many pointed out at a core character flaw in the author -- he was stealing food and not abiding by the NDA, implying they probably would not want to be friends them or work wit, because there is an integrity issue (which I agree with), hypocrisy is the same way -- it points to a flaw deeper issue at the core. If it is of a company, it points to a structural or culture issue.

> Expecting people to be 100% consistent 100% of the time is ultimately silly.

Just like people in power are watched, criticized and held to a higher standard, so are companies. With people say, you might care if US president is doing cocaine or likes stealing from department stores, but you might not care as much if someone you never heard across town does it. Why? Because those in power, when they corrupt, they can cause a lot of damage. I was a bit extreme in the sample, but think about this one as well -- someone who holds nuclear launch codes should not believe that the world was created 4000 years ago. This can happen in US and is worrisome right?

And it is the same with companies. A company like Google which control, manages, stores and handle a large amount of world's internet and data traffic, having "minor" integrity issues is a huge deal. Some 2 person company who is spamming everyone with Viagra emails, is doing a lot worse, but nobody cares about that, because they don't have any power or influence.

> This applies even to the parent-child relationship

Agree on principle, in general here. But that is a bit odd case, mostly because it turn the "company is a family and is like careful watchful father, looking after its children". There is something very jarring about that to me.

> Same thing for a company and culture. You have to preserve the culture, and if that means ejecting people who mean to do it harm

I think the debate is about culture and the artist pointed towards what the culture might be. I think they are trying to say there is a problem with it.

> As for the 'Don't Be Evil' - lots of people at Google still believe in this.

Of course. The best PR is the one that is bought internally. Assigning high ethical standards and morality to companies is the problem here isn't it. The fact that many seemingly bright, analytically minded people bought into it is a bit worrying.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#75
post #14
post #9

What I find most interesting about this piece is the awesome lifestyle of flitting from grant to grant as a semi-celebrity in the international jet-set art world. Also lets you feel good about "leaking" your employer's information to "organizers." Take that, employer! And best of all, you get to use the word "show" as a nontransitive verb, as in "I showed at Venice." Apparently this lifestyle is only available if you…

There's a lot of odd insinuations and expectations in this piece. I found particularly strange the part where he talks about his joy in talking communist politics in Berkeley and then immediately muses about how to make these skills 'marketable' and about his resentment that he might not be rewarded with a comfortable bourgeois middle-class existence. Feels like there are a lot of unstated assumptions and arguments b…

Thats the least of it. The entire second half of the piece is flagrant self promotion and self-congratulatory humblebrag.

I dislike Google as much as anyone, but this author is no better.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#76
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting tired of hypocrisy being held up as the ultimate sin. The world is more complex than that. Humans cannot fully logically integrate EVERYTHING they believe at the same time, it's just biologically impossible. Expecting people to be 100% consistent 100% of the time is ultimately silly. And for companies, well they are ultimately just groups of people. So the same issue. Also, open and tolerant doesn't mean…

> I'm getting tired of hypocrisy being held up as the ultimate sin. I didn't say it is the ultimate sin. So should it not be criticized and pointed out? It is like saying "well murder is worse than theft, so don't talk about theft". That's not how it works. I think every culture and society has a strong bias against hypocrisy and it is a popular topic in folk stories and culture (say making fun or criticizing hypocri…

See, the problem here is you're just too cynical. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Regarding hypocrisy, the problem isn't that people are distrustful of thieves, the problem is its a capital sin that is used to find the slightest of problems with your opponents then based on literally doing nothing wrong, attempt to destroy them. It's about giving people space to change their mind. Unless you think the whole 'flip flopper' development was positive and we should prize people who hold on to opinions regardless of how incorrect they become.

As for personality, this article popped up today and I think it's relevant: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/06/24/48185966...

Finally, as for Google's data I can say without a doubt that we have one of the best internal IT and security policies I have seen anywhere. Not only are the polices solid, the implementation is vastly superior to any other security system in the civilian area, and possibly some military ones. The google privacy and security teams (yup, multiple) are passionate about this and are extremely proactive. There is a lot of people working on this area. I fully trust Google with my data.

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#77
post #68
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why single out Apple? They aren't that nice to their employees. And if you single out Apple, you can also single out Amazon: they may treat their employees badly by Google standards, but I am delighted to be their customer.

I'm not talking about the corporation with regards to its employees. I'm talking about the corporation in regards to the society that it exists within, and the strange conceptual notion that it for some reason should be an amoral creature within that society. What I am referring to is that there are people who feel that Apple is different, on some level, that they're not "the usual company"--but, ultimately, I think…

Corporations answer to their owners. (At least in theory, in practice they are mostly run for the benefit of management.)

The owners can decide on what goals the company should pursue. Profit is just one of the possibilities. (But of course, there's a zero-bound on profit: if you take losses for too long, you don't have a business left.)

Re: The Artist Leaving the Googleplex

#78
post #77
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about the corporation with regards to its employees. I'm talking about the corporation in regards to the society that it exists within, and the strange conceptual notion that it for some reason should be an amoral creature within that society. What I am referring to is that there are people who feel that Apple is different, on some level, that they're not "the usual company"--but, ultimately, I think…

Corporations answer to their owners. (At least in theory, in practice they are mostly run for the benefit of management.) The owners can decide on what goals the company should pursue. Profit is just one of the possibilities. (But of course, there's a zero-bound on profit: if you take losses for too long, you don't have a business left.)

Corporations do not answer just to their owners, they answer to the society that grants them their charter. The society that allows the corporation to operate can destroy it just as easily as it permitted its creation. This should, in a functioning society, behoove the corporation to act like a decent citizen would. In practice, it does not.
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