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A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

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Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#71

Post by wccrawford »

dreeko_ wrote: post #29
dimino wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me more like the Apple Vs. Google "ecosystems". Sure, Google has a Play store and a competing OS, but it's not like you can't find Chrome in the iOS store.

its interesting that you picked chrome as an example, with it being a wrapper around Apple's webkit on the iOS platform

Yes, because it shows Google's dedication to not leaving people out. Apple doesn't allow Google to use the real chrome rendering engine, and instead requires that every webview be webkit-based. Google would absolutely use their own if they were allowed.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#72

Post by mnsc »

slavik81 wrote: post #50
conception wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also worried about the actual effects of motion sickness once it becomes actually mass consumer affordable. Generally, reports are that VR can be particularly rough for most folks.

While I enjoyed the DK2, I got unbearably sick from Half-Life 2 within a half hour. Playing with Tilt Brush on the Vive, I didn't feel the slightest bit queasy. Not sure if the difference was the hardware or the software, but it seems like a solvable problem.

HL2 is the only game that I felt nauseous from. Wonder why? I stopped playing though instead of trying finding a solution so I don't know if it's a known problem.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#73

Post by mrfusion »

slavik81 wrote: post #50
conception wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also worried about the actual effects of motion sickness once it becomes actually mass consumer affordable. Generally, reports are that VR can be particularly rough for most folks.

While I enjoyed the DK2, I got unbearably sick from Half-Life 2 within a half hour. Playing with Tilt Brush on the Vive, I didn't feel the slightest bit queasy. Not sure if the difference was the hardware or the software, but it seems like a solvable problem.

I actually got really naughtius playing half life 2 on the pc many years ago. Maybe there's something about that game.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#74

Post by fsiefken »

sergiosgc wrote: post #68
diziet wrote: post #23

VR is amazing and the opportunity is incredible. However, I am worried worried that the technology to produce high enough resolution displays will take some time to get here. Without smartphones driving the demand, will we get to 5-10k dpi displays for VR tech? We have 800 or so dpi displays rolling out, with current generation devices filling their FOV with about 500 dpi screens. We're driving 1.3-1.8m pixels per ey…

I own a Vive. We are quite a few years from having HMDs where you can't see pixelation. I estimate we need a tenfold increase in density. However, and this is something you need to try to believe, pixelation does not affect immersion. The human brain is amazing at coping with vision defects. When in a game, you absolutely forget about pixel visibility. You are just "in there". So, it is true that you can't get detail…

Yes, I was pretty immersed in Duke Nukem 3D even though you could see the pixels. I had an 800x600 emagin z800 hmd, but my brain interpolated both displays to a higher resolution

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#75

Post by gberger »

cleeus wrote: post #46
kendallpark wrote: post #13

Of all the gaming companies, Valve makes the most sense to be this heavily invested in VR--given their stake in the PC-industry. Or maybe too many devs thought VR was the coolist project to work on and moved to it. (Valve is known for their flat structure http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.p... )

> Or maybe too many devs thought VR was the coolist project to work on and moved to it. I think it's this. That's the problem with hype waves in majority-ruled organizations. Or I'm wrong and people will soon be sitting in the subway with a VR headset on and playing Fruit Ninja in VR.

Valve doesn't make games that you can play sitting in the subway.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#76

Post by macspoofing »

optforfon wrote: post #44
JonathonW wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The VR market right now feels kind of like the 3D accelerator market in the '90s, before Direct3D really came into its own, hardware manufacturers were still half-assing OpenGL support, and lots of games were programmed against vendor-proprietary APIs like Glide. Would be nice if people had actually learned from that and rallied around a standard API/middleware for VR to start with, rather than trying to "console-ize…

Since people are still figuring out what makes good VR and good paradigms for programming with VR, I think it'd be likely that any design by committee API would be a disaster

It wouldn't be the final word on VR API for all eternity. It's a starting point for the spec, which will change as the industry grows.

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#77

Post by Retric »

elementalest wrote: post #58
jn1234 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until Facebook decides that it wants a cut of all the sales on Oculus and locks down the platform, hence Valve's concern. There's only one App store on iOS vs Android. Valve's main bargaining chip would be not allowing their games to run on Oculus. The recent push back on Oculus exclusives and Valve willing to float cash to developers means they are well aware of their situation.

If Valve lock out the rift from their games, it just reinforces the exclusivity, lockouts and polarisation. Means less sales through steam, less profit for valve. If they lock out the rift, will they lock out all the other HMD that will surface in the next couple years? That will likely stunt the VR industry given how central the steam platform is to games distribution. Thats not what valve want. Valve want it to gro…

Embrace extend extinguish. Valve is not going to block the rift but they will make it's users second class citizens, until VR hardware goes the way of monitors and sound cards. Facebook adds little to this as they don't know gaming and don't have a history of keep multiple businesses going at the same time. So really it's the same company that originally developed the hardware with access to more capital and the risk of being shut down.

In the end VR is going to be on a tiny fraction of computers for a long time. There will be waves of improvements and a few hype cycles (3D TV anyone?)

PS: Sure this time it's different, and next time it will also be different, and the time after that...

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#78

Post by majewsky »

deanCommie wrote: post #67
croon wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like competition as much as the next guy, but I'm happy as long as the more open platform is more popular. Wish Oculus took a different route.

My prediction: Valve VR will be the choice for hardcore games/gamers. Oculus VR will shift focus to more casual gaming (quick, fun, not graphically superior), and more importantly media consumption (think: Facebook live 360 video of major media events like E3, or ComicCon, and eventually paid subscription for viewing of live sporting events like courtside NBA games)

So SteamVR = PC and Oculus = Console?

If so, I need to go and join the glorious SteamVR master race. ;)

Re: A Third of Valve Is Now Working on VR

#79

Post by majewsky »

sergiosgc wrote: post #68
diziet wrote: post #23

VR is amazing and the opportunity is incredible. However, I am worried worried that the technology to produce high enough resolution displays will take some time to get here. Without smartphones driving the demand, will we get to 5-10k dpi displays for VR tech? We have 800 or so dpi displays rolling out, with current generation devices filling their FOV with about 500 dpi screens. We're driving 1.3-1.8m pixels per ey…

I own a Vive. We are quite a few years from having HMDs where you can't see pixelation. I estimate we need a tenfold increase in density. However, and this is something you need to try to believe, pixelation does not affect immersion. The human brain is amazing at coping with vision defects. When in a game, you absolutely forget about pixel visibility. You are just "in there". So, it is true that you can't get detail…

> The human brain is amazing at coping with vision defects.

Indeed. I am a bit short-sighted (literally, not metaphorically), but I usually spend the day without my glasses. Only in lectures, I will put them on, and immediately wonder how I could cope with the blurry mess that I saw before. But it just doesn't matter when you're focusing on different things.

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