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Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

electrek.co

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Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#71

Post by danielharan »

superuser2 wrote: post #68

I'll keep banging on this since I haven't yet heard a satisfactory answer: what are you going to do about people who park on the street or in garages they do not own? Overnight charging systems are for homeowners. Even with a (high end, optimistic) public charge station time of 30 minutes, if there are just 4 people ahead of you in line, that's 2.5 hours out of your day. Yes self driving may fix this eventually, but…

People will figure it out. Parking lot owners will have an incentive to provide charging stations; leave your car keys to the attendant and they'll get to it over the day.

More meta: our inability to see solutions to minor roadblocks never mean something won't happen. It's similarly amazing to me how so many commenters here don't think insurance for self-driving cars is solvable in the US - while they're already being tested in several other countries.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#72

Post by kochthesecond »

tyfon wrote: post #67
kwhitefoot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current government wants to sell off the Flytog (Airport Train). This is a state owned enterprise that even the seriously capitalist Norwegian financial magazine Kapital says is one of the best run companies in the country and should not be privatised. There have been serious suggestions that Statoil should be sold off completely. The electricity system has been privatised even though most of the energy is genera…

Regarding Statoil. The government currently owns about 1/3 of it. The oil income for the state does not come from the profit of the company but the taxes they put on the companies that extract oil (which is about 80%) and the sale of licenses through Petoro. Selling Statoil (and the other ones) have absolutely no comparison to what Thatcher did in the 80s if that is what you are insinuating. Regarding the power, the…

Why sell off the train if it's earning money? Plenty of government run ventures don't.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#74

Post by [deleted] »

kochthesecond wrote: post #72
tyfon wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Statoil. The government currently owns about 1/3 of it. The oil income for the state does not come from the profit of the company but the taxes they put on the companies that extract oil (which is about 80%) and the sale of licenses through Petoro. Selling Statoil (and the other ones) have absolutely no comparison to what Thatcher did in the 80s if that is what you are insinuating. Regarding the power, the…

Why sell off the train if it's earning money? Plenty of government run ventures don't.

[deleted]

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#75

Post by labster »

vixen99 wrote: post #19
wrong_variable wrote: post #5

To anyone who is thinking: 1) Yeah, they are a small resource rich country, not practical for the rest of us. America, Canada, UK, Saudi Arabia and Australia were resource rich and still are ( America is the largest producer of oil ) and had the opportunity to do what Norway did but chose not to do it. UK had a huge surplus from north sea oil during the 1990s which is allowed private companies to profit off. Same wit…

Venezuela is also resource rich.

Venezuela is run by inept kleptocrats. Either the ineptitude or the kleptocracy part would be enough to keep a similar scheme from working in Venezuela.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#76

Post by digi_owl »

tyfon wrote: post #44
digi_owl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their problem is that once more they can't think beyond the capitol. There already are all kinds of silly taxes and such to try to get people to drive less etc. But outside of the biggest cities public transport only runs during office hours. End result is that owning and using a car i vital to continued survival. So expect this to turn petrol cars into something of a Giffen good, if not an outright Veblen good.

You can still own a car just not a polluting one. Personally I have a petrol car that I use to drive to and from an island called Hidra (south in Norway, about 400 km from here), but there is absolutely no need for a petrol car to do this. The only reason I didn't buy a tesla is because the build quality of that car felt really bad when I did a test drive, however in 2025 I suspect there to be long distance electric…

Not far geographically, but the buss stop going at 17.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#77

Post by alkonaut »

superuser2 wrote: post #68

I'll keep banging on this since I haven't yet heard a satisfactory answer: what are you going to do about people who park on the street or in garages they do not own? Overnight charging systems are for homeowners. Even with a (high end, optimistic) public charge station time of 30 minutes, if there are just 4 people ahead of you in line, that's 2.5 hours out of your day. Yes self driving may fix this eventually, but…

Charging posts on the streets and in public parkings is becoming more and more common. Also, electricity is 230V so charging at home is quicker than with 110.

Perhaps most importantly, since Scandinavia is at 60deg north, we use engine heaters in winter. That means that a lot of parking spaces, such as those outside multi-tenant buildings have a charger post with at least 230V/10A (because at -25C if you don't plug in at night you aren't going to get to work tomorrow).

So "plugging in your car" is something we have done for a long time, even with gasoline cars, and even if you don't live in a detached house.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#78

Post by aftbit »

This is a very bold bet. It would not work in the US, at least without some kind of revolution in public transit. There are plenty of places where not owning a car means you basically cannot have a job or a social life, and many of these are far from any existing EV stations.

It will take a long time to replicate the network of petrol stations that covers basically all US roads. Also, modern EV cars are still an order of magnitude slower to recharge than gasoline cars are to refill. It's not as easy to increase your range in an EV as it is to carry some extra petrol if you're on a long trip into the brush.

Fortunately, I don't see this even being seriously proposed in the US until long after these problems are solved.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#79

Post by toomuchtodo »

aftbit wrote: post #78

This is a very bold bet. It would not work in the US, at least without some kind of revolution in public transit. There are plenty of places where not owning a car means you basically cannot have a job or a social life, and many of these are far from any existing EV stations. It will take a long time to replicate the network of petrol stations that covers basically all US roads. Also, modern EV cars are still an orde…

> It will take a long time to replicate the network of petrol stations that covers basically all US roads.

Every home is a slow charger. Tesla has Superchargers covering most of the first world.

> Also, modern EV cars are still an order of magnitude slower to recharge than gasoline cars are to refill.

Vehicles sit idle ~95% of the time. Average US round trip commute is ~45 miles/day. Plenty of charge time.

> Fortunately, I don't see this even being seriously proposed in the US until long after these problems are solved.

Tesla is making an announcement about their autonomous vehicle program near the end of the year.

Change is going to happen slowly, and then all of a sudden.

Re: Norway reportedly agrees on banning new sales of gas-powered cars by 2025

#80

Post by vpeters25 »

jschwartzi wrote: post #55
vpeters25 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a more balanced approach than the linked article which claims an outright ban on oil-based vehicles. I think banning any technology is a bad idea. Imho, the problem with climate change is not the burning of oil or carbon, but the emissions from doing it.

Why can't we ban fuel-burning cars? They have a more direct impact on the environment than just climate. I live next to a busy road and I frequently have to sweep noxious dust off my balcony. Not to mention that the sky at sunset is not naturally orange, but is tinted by the haze. We banned CFCs because they were removing the UV filter from our atmosphere, so there is precedent, and decades later nobody misses them.

My opinion is rather than outright banning fuel-burning, we should just ban releasing their emissions to the atmosphere.

While this would ban current fuel burning technology, it might allow for someone to come up with a car engine or coal turbine that doesn't release anything.

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