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Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

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Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#71

Post by seanl »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #29

The problem I see here is that Einstein lacked any self awareness. He doesn't seem to grasp that his mind is an extraordinary one and hence an exception which has led him to conclusions like this... ===== This crippling of individuals I consider the worst evil of capitalism. Our whole educational system suffers from this evil. An exaggerated competitive attitude is inculcated into the student, who is trained to worsh…

"most people need a push in order to perform"

Perform for the benefit of whom?

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#72

Post by camccann »

lionhearted wrote: post #58
gnosis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a bloody revolution must inevitably result in an oppressive dictatorship. Just look at what happened after the American Revolution. Oh, wait... Anyway, I should be clear that I am not advocating bloody revolution (I'm against all violence except in clear cases of self-defense). And I very much doubt bloody revolution was what Einstein was advocating either. For that matter, I think you'll find very few advocate…

Edit: Ah, you edited and added more detail that you're more in favor of a peaceful transition. Okay, I'm with you on that - I think the bloody guerella communist takeover is always going to be a real mess. Rest of comment still stands if you're up for discussing, hope it's interesting and informative a bit. > Just look at what happened after the American Revolution. Oh, wait... Let me ask, seriously - I've done a lot…

Let me ask, seriously - I've done a lot of looking into it, and I'm at this point firmly convinced that socialism is a bad thing.

Really. Have you defined what is and is not socialism in a rigorous, non-subjective manner? Have you conducted empirical studies? Run computer simulations based on behavioral models? Published detailed quantitative predictions based on your understanding of economics? What objective means would you use to test the proposition "socialism is a bad thing"? What scenarios might someone who disagrees with you consider very likely that you would consider very unlikely?

This idea of being "firmly convinced" regarding a question of economics is quite novel, so I'm curious how you've come to it.

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#73

Post by Semiapies »

camccann wrote: post #69
Semiapies wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Science", in simple terms, is an effort to explain the natural world. Note that creationist propaganda would, by this definition, be completely scientific. This, of course, is because I've chosen an absurd definition of science, not because of lazy thinking of the part of evolutionary biologists.

Okay, you missed my point completely, but never mind. Arguments about terms with lots of emotional content but very ambiguous meanings tend to look more like people cheering for their local sports team more than like a meaningful discussion.

Arguments about subjects involving real depth tend to be confusing when people misuse the terminology.

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#74

Post by camccann »

Semiapies wrote: post #73
camccann wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, you missed my point completely, but never mind. Arguments about terms with lots of emotional content but very ambiguous meanings tend to look more like people cheering for their local sports team more than like a meaningful discussion.

Arguments about subjects involving real depth tend to be confusing when people misuse the terminology.

I question the assumption that there is, in fact, any depth involved in arguments over the merits of socialism-in-general. Or most discussions of economic systems, for that matter.

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#75

Post by MaysonL »

Semiapies wrote: post #5
nlabs wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad retort. The prerequisites to understanding economics is hardly close to that needed to understand QED. Besides, economists have physics envy. Physicists can intelligently contribute to economics.

"Physicists can intelligently contribute to economics" Someone should submit a link of an example; this does not do so any more than a blog rant about the "global warming hoax" contributes to climatology.

von Neumann on game theory. QED. (the other QED).

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#76

Post by [deleted] »

MaysonL wrote: post #75
Semiapies wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Physicists can intelligently contribute to economics" Someone should submit a link of an example; this does not do so any more than a blog rant about the "global warming hoax" contributes to climatology.

von Neumann on game theory. QED. (the other QED).

[deleted]

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#77

Post by Semiapies »

MaysonL wrote: post #75
Semiapies wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Physicists can intelligently contribute to economics" Someone should submit a link of an example; this does not do so any more than a blog rant about the "global warming hoax" contributes to climatology.

von Neumann on game theory. QED. (the other QED).

I assume you mean quod erat demonstrandum, which normally goes at the end of a proof.

The only thing you've helped prove, as requested, is that there are far better stories about physicists and economics to submit here than a political essay by Albert Einstein. :)

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#78

Post by nlabs »

Semiapies wrote: post #77
MaysonL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

von Neumann on game theory. QED. (the other QED).

I assume you mean quod erat demonstrandum , which normally goes at the end of a proof. The only thing you've helped prove, as requested, is that there are far better stories about physicists and economics to submit here than a political essay by Albert Einstein. :)

of course, but the guy who posted the essay it did so to show off a critique of captialism. An appropriate response is then to say why Einstein is wrong, not attack his credibility by making it akin to JM Keynes commenting on QED (as Keynes is clearly not qualified to comment on QED).

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#79

Post by Semiapies »

nlabs wrote: post #78
Semiapies wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean quod erat demonstrandum , which normally goes at the end of a proof. The only thing you've helped prove, as requested, is that there are far better stories about physicists and economics to submit here than a political essay by Albert Einstein. :)

of course, but the guy who posted the essay it did so to show off a critique of captialism. An appropriate response is then to say why Einstein is wrong, not attack his credibility by making it akin to JM Keynes commenting on QED (as Keynes is clearly not qualified to comment on QED).

No.

Einstein is championing a system shown not to work. Why should I spend any more time refuting that in 2010 than I would trying to counter some old essay by an economist on the luminiferous aether?

Re: Albert Einstein: Why Socialism?

#80

Post by madair »

Semiapies wrote: post #40
madair wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This top-down thing is getting tiresome. Typically this sort of statement is given by conservatives and libertarians. I'm not exactly sure how they manage to convince themselves that their dual love affair with military dominance & patriotic zeal impose less social control. [Edit:] Well, actually, Stockholm Syndrome is one likely factor. It's amazing what sort of legs that research has, there really should be more co…

"This top-down thing is getting tiresome." Then you figure out a way around the economic calculation problem. There's a Nobel in it for you. Until then, I'm going to simply be amused at how it's unfair to note that Albert Einstein wasn't actually an economic expert, but it's perfectly reasonable to engage in knee-jerk US political stereotypes.

Wow.
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