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Advertising is devastating to my well-being

briancarper.net

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Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#71

Post by Tichy »

Groxx wrote: post #66
Tichy wrote: post #62

OK, a thought experiment: what about an ad blocker that downloads the ad, but doesn't display it? Because the argument seems to be that it is not necessary to look at the ad, only to download it, so that the site get's paid. I am pretty sure such an downloading ad blocker would be considered a kind of click fraud.

Well, any CSS `display: none` trick does this. I've been using it for years in my own minor-tweaks, because hiding via CSS with a user stylesheet is easy compared to hacking something like AdBlock.

Not so sure, I guess browsers have become smarter. I don't think they generally load images that are invisible. At least I seem to remember having experienced that, don't remember the exact circumstances, though.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#72

Post by Tichy »

vl wrote: post #70
Tichy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then remind me again, why don't the advertising sites just block people with ad blockers?

Some of the sites already do that.

Strangely, I haven't noticed. I guess they won't be missed.

I saw a few of these sites back then when the discussion flared up the first time, but haven't seen any since.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#73

Post by Groxx »

Tichy wrote: post #63
Malcx wrote: post #37

By contrast, books (for example) are awesome. I pay for a book, and then I read the book start-to-finish with no ads Thats the issue, you paid money for the book, it's the business model the author used to make writing the book worthwhile. Historically the Internet doesn't seem to support content producers this way.

Then remind me again, why don't the advertising sites just block people with ad blockers?

Ars just did this, apparently. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171927

Some people whitelisted, some subscribed, some boycotted. Besides, at best, you can only make it hard to hide ads / content. If data is transferred, data can be manipulated, and data can be ignored.

I'd suppose the end-state of adblockers is something that does a rendered-page analysis to detect content, rather than looking at code / origin of info.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#74

Post by Groxx »

jimmyjim wrote: post #68
Tichy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then remind me again, why don't the advertising sites just block people with ad blockers?

You know, amidst the ad-block debate today, I actually see an opportunity ripe for a start-up. A system that lets willing participants opt out of ad-viewship for direct micropayments. Wait a second, I think what I'm describing is close to the new 'Flattr' -- but still not quite it . Let the users choose between micropayments or ad-viewership.

I'd love micropayments. The problem currently is that there's no good way to do them, as there are no microtransactions that aren't just paying into the transaction-manager's pockets.

* looks at flattr * will have to poke into that.

edit: why not a combination? Micro-pay at a minimum value (say a couple cents) to get no ads. Click more than once to add more payment % to that site.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#75

Post by Tichy »

Groxx wrote: post #73
Tichy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then remind me again, why don't the advertising sites just block people with ad blockers?

Ars just did this, apparently. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171927 Some people whitelisted, some subscribed, some boycotted. Besides, at best , you can only make it hard to hide ads / content. If data is transferred, data can be manipulated, and data can be ignored. I'd suppose the end-state of adblockers is something that does a rendered-page analysis to detect content, rather than looking at code / origin o…

Personally I would feel differently about circumventing their block than about blocking ads. If they want to block me, I would accept it.

Maybe there would always be people who "steal", but are they really so many that it would hurt?

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#76

Post by huhtenberg »

jimmyjim wrote: post #68
Tichy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then remind me again, why don't the advertising sites just block people with ad blockers?

You know, amidst the ad-block debate today, I actually see an opportunity ripe for a start-up. A system that lets willing participants opt out of ad-viewship for direct micropayments. Wait a second, I think what I'm describing is close to the new 'Flattr' -- but still not quite it . Let the users choose between micropayments or ad-viewership.

Contenture tried just that and they couldn't pull it off.

http://searchyc.com/contenture

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#77

Post by alayne »

natrius wrote: post #26

It's painful to see so many intelligent people unable or unwilling to analyze the effects their actions cause. If you block ads on sites you enjoy without communicating with the producers of that site, you are lowering the probability that sites you enjoy will continue to be produced. There are several ways to mitigate this effect if you don't like ads: 1) Pay for a subscription. 2) If no subscription is offered, ask…

We're all parasites of society in some sense. If we didn't have a technologically complex world, Ars wouldn't have an audience. Maybe they should be paying us for having anything to write about at all!

I think community sites and subscription sites will be there to fill the void when ad-driven sites go down in flames. Apparently Ars is still in business though.

I won't shed any tears or feel any guilt if sites fail, because I think people will produce content for free. I think creation and dissemination of information is a basic human drive for a sufficient subset of the population to keep all of us "parasites" well fed. If you can figure out a way to get paid for it, good for you, but don't think you can demand that I experience the world through your ad utopia. I refuse to live on your terms.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#78

Post by ash »

doron wrote: post #22
rick888 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I submit that, if sites ran carefully-vetted ads that were of legitimate interest to their readers, were not annoying, and did not compromise user privacy, far fewer of us would use adblock." How do you know if the site has changed if you are using adblock? If they do decide to change ads, it won't really matter because they are already blocked. What about people that are using a computer with adblock already instal…

I consider ads that are served from many well known ad services intrusive to my experience, they dramatically slow the rendering of pages, often block content, or have such jarring graphics or color themes it is almost impossible to read the document. Ads are blocked for me by default, and i choose to unblock them in websites that generate repeated value for me. this includes the content of the website, but also the…

> I would like to also have the option to get a discount for just clicking on the Ad from the vendor, if you want my attention offer me an incentive.

AdSense doesn't allow sites to do this. I don't know about other services.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#79

Post by doron »

Tichy wrote: post #57
dandelany wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a little bit silly. By not watching ads, I am screwing somebody? Yes. As Ars said explicitly in their post, every time you choose to block the rendering of an ad on their page, their ad provider does not count the impression, and they do not get paid anything. So yes, you're directly screwing Ars by costing them money, denying them revenue, and nullifying their business model. > If a web site asks people wh…

"Again, if you'd read Ars' post, you would know that they are paid on impressions, not conversion rate." I read that, but as I said, if they have a higher conversion rate, they should be able to negotiate a higher fee for the ads anyway. On the other aspects, I guess we just disagree (why is it worse to screw advertisers than ad pushing people)?

revenue from impressions is a speculative hogwash remnant of the print medium and needs to go

The idea one makes money from ads simply by having it displayed is copying a highly speculative advertising model of print (where the effect can hardly be measured) to the web (where you can measure it be by actual clicks) put simply its vaporware of the worst kind, and a business that hedges its revenue on this model is hedging its existence on speculation alone.

The premise of advertising on the web is highly informed by age old print models that have failed that industry and put into doubt the efficacy of anything that is uttered in them.

users have a choice. You want effective Ads on the web, offer the users something,so they wont block you. or go away. effective Ads on the web are to be about incentive.

I own the delivery device, i can manipulate it as i will. This is not a newspaper, i control it, not the vendor. i will do what i want with it. the business owner need to give me a an incentive.

Re: Advertising is devastating to my well-being

#80

Post by doron »

Tichy wrote: post #75
Groxx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ars just did this, apparently. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1171927 Some people whitelisted, some subscribed, some boycotted. Besides, at best , you can only make it hard to hide ads / content. If data is transferred, data can be manipulated, and data can be ignored. I'd suppose the end-state of adblockers is something that does a rendered-page analysis to detect content, rather than looking at code / origin o…

Personally I would feel differently about circumventing their block than about blocking ads. If they want to block me, I would accept it. Maybe there would always be people who "steal", but are they really so many that it would hurt?

I would consider subscribing to Ars technica if the offer me an ad free experience as well as their pdf formatting etc...
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