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Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

theguardian.com

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Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#71

Post by corin_ »

apo wrote: post #62

From the study: > A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions. http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366... Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr…

Firstly, while this is nothing like proper clinical trials, there are plenty of people who have anecdotes about psychedelics helping their depression before the idea of studying this was a thing.

Secondly, if a placebo has a really high rate of success, and less side effects than currently available medication, then it could still be interesting.

And thirdly, it's going to be really, really hard to test against placebos. They're using quite strong doses to get these results, and I think it would be very hard to not realise you weren't getting the psychedelic effects unless you went into the test with literally no prior understanding of what effects the non-placebo drug would have.

But yes, a lot of research still to do. I'm rather optimistic, though.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#72

Post by protomyth »

mistercow wrote: post #59
protomyth wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but morphine and opiates in a known bad along with cannabinoids not sounding much better. Acronyms and "compounds" don't set off the hate generally.

I don't see a strong argument that "THC" is any better. Everyone knows what THC is.

You'd be surprised (very surprised - its almost a dihydrogen monoxide thing in reverse), and truly acronyms get more respect.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#73

Post by reitanqild »

mistercow wrote: post #59
protomyth wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but morphine and opiates in a known bad along with cannabinoids not sounding much better. Acronyms and "compounds" don't set off the hate generally.

I don't see a strong argument that "THC" is any better. Everyone knows what THC is.

Depends on your definition of everyone. I for one trigger significantly less on THC.

It can also be argued that THC sounds more like a synthesised or refined version consisting of the active ingredients.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#74

Post by joslin01 »

rudolf0 wrote: post #55
Neff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. I've had the opposite experience when ending my psychedelic experiences. I find that I get overly critical in my introspection and pick apart every perceived flaw, leaving me in a raw and negative mental state. Instead of leaving me feeling refreshed I am drained and dread the idea of going back to being "normal" where I become blind to those obvious flaws and complacent with living a sub-par life…

Sounds exactly like every time I smoke weed. Including that disappointing expectation of becoming sober and blissfully unaware of my flaws. Have never tried any psychedelics, but some of my bad "trips" with weed (sometimes involving delusions and hallucinations) make me wary.

We all been there with weed, but the root of this behavior lies within yourself. Weed just makes you more sensitive, which can be amazing provided you know how to (1) confront your demons honestly & (2) find an activity you enjoy.

Without (1), you'll never get (2) and believe me, as someone who smokes everyday, (1) will come up from time to time when things aren't going well with your life. That's when you gotta smoke and mentally sort out what's going on.

Weed leaves you in a slightly-crippled state insofar as your self-defenses don't work as well. As a result, thoughts from the subconscious creep upwards to the conscious level. As much as it "hurts", it's good to be fully aware and honest with yourself.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#75

Post by patrickmclaren »

cryptoz wrote: post #69
apo wrote: post #62

From the study: > A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions. http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366... Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr…

> next to useless No study or scientific curiosity is "next to useless". You are being intentionally antagonistic and there's no need for that. All research has to start somewhere, and this study is a significant start to this field. In no way is it or its conclusions "next to useless".

Agreed. One might say to take the conclusion with a grain of salt, but "next to useless" is being overly dismissive.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#76

Post by elif »

apo wrote: post #62

From the study: > A logical next step would be to carry out a placebo controlled randomised trial in which the level of therapist contact is consistent between conditions. http://www.thelancet.com/pb/assets/raw/Lancet/pdfs/S22150366... Depression studies are subject to well-known, powerful placebo effects, rendering this study's conclusions next to useless: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/are-antidepr…

Heh, a placebo effect would make sense ...to someone that hasn't tripped. The explosion of neurotransmitters can not just be simulated or induced through coercion.

There's a chasmic divide between the effects of psilocybin and any mental state you can will consciously or subconsciously.

EDIT: unless your hypothesis is that the dissolution of the ego, lack of regard for the conventional, and overwhelming sense of identity with the cosmos are unrelated to depression. Sure a control could tell you that.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#77

Post by Retric »

eloff wrote: post #47
pigpaws wrote: post #34

Legalize, standardize, tax, repeat. Why is it that difficult? People will do anything to keep their grip on (perceived) power - even if it means destroying someone's life. Gov't doesn't really want jobs, or tax revenue at the expense of their jobs. What would cops do if they weren't locking up kids for a joint?

Not everything is a giant conspiracy theory. If society changed to the point where drugs didn't have such a stigma against them, then the politicians would legalize them. They excel at doing things that are popular - be it good or bad things. Case in point Canada with their goal of legalizing marijuana. It's harder to do that in the US because you have more conservative people who see drugs as morally repugnant. My p…

I don't think there is much of a stigma around hallucinogens compared to Heroin or other opioids. Peyote has long been legal to use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote#Legality

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#78

Post by kolapuriya »

I really do believe some of the more negative stereotypes and stigma is beginning to lift surrounding the therapeutic use of entheogens. Like you stated time and accurate information with disciplined research hopefully leads to change. I think we have all seen that occur with marijuana for both medical and recreational use. I am very optimistic about the future of psychedelic use for those that need it and those that desire it.

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#79

Post by krylon »

zimbu668 wrote: post #17
exelius wrote: post #2

From personal experience in my youth, I can definitely say that psychedelics (mushrooms in particular) can help you think in different ways that make your problems seem trivial and imminently solvable. Those changed patterns of thought seem like a revelation at the time -- like the clouds opened and an answer came down from the sky. So I'm not at all surprised with this. That said, this study had only 12 participants…

Roland Griffiths at John's Hopkins is trying to do proper research on psilocybin, i.e. with control groups. Although it's kind of hard since the effects of psilocybin are rather noticeable. http://www.tedmed.com/speakers/show?id=526372 Just in case anyone here hasn't already seen this: https://xkcd.com/1462/

I'm thinking more along the lines of this one: https://xkcd.com/790/

Re: Magic mushrooms found to lift severe depression in clinical trial

#80

Post by maxxxxx »

joslin01 wrote: post #67
maxxxxx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd definitely recommend doing this only with someone who has experience and is reasonable. On one of my last camping trips I saw two girls doing mushrooms which ended with one of them running around naked for hours screaming for help and attacking people she thought were demons. This only ended when a park ranger arrested her after a chase through the bushes. Her friend was just watching and smiling. I am not oppose…

It's true. I tell all my friends / family if you're going to do mushrooms for the first time, do them with me. I've seen the worst of trips and only my experience in knowing "I'm just high" kept me stable. Newcomers can't call on this experience so readily and will undoubtedly think they're the special exception that is going to die. I also have more advice for newcomer shroomers: one thought can spiral downward or u…

If you ever come to LA let's do it :-)

Should add: Would meditation experience help? I feel that my experience helps me dealing with fearful situation. The fear is there but I can watch it and it doesn't define me.

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