71–80 of 80 posts
I'm just worried costs will rise so much, the 35k for the Tesla model 3 will rise as well.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming 50 kg of lithium carbonate per car (most sources I can find are somewhere in the 500-700g/kWh for lithium carbonate), and a price of $5/kg, you're looking at $250 in lithium per car. Even if you take the high end estimates I found (1.3kg LCE/kWh and $6/kg for LCE), you're still well under $1,000 in lithium costs. I'm sure a reduction in lithium costs would be welcomed by everyone involved, but it certainly w…
Hmm. Nice work doing the math out. My statement was evidently erroneous. Which component makes the battery so expensive, then? Do you know? I am not really familiar with its make-up past the lithium. One thing to consider, though, is that lithium coming from Chile is going to have a significant mark-up owing to transportation and tariff costs. Do your numbers take that into account, or were you looking at the raw mat…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I've found a way wow. If you're not bullshitting, and your method is scalable,reliable,and cost-effective congratulations on changing the world.
It's worth pointing out that "cost-effective" in a competitive market is actually a pretty high bar. For context, lithium can be reliably extracted from seawater, with more available than humans could dream of using. To do so costs about $30/lb, which certainly isn't breaking the bank if you're using it for a car battery. Trouble is, the market price for lithium is closer to $5/lb, so good luck selling any. (Prices i…
Sure, aganst ten times the value of other msterials per weight of battery, it's not a bank breaker, but what is that price compared to the profit margin? If the margin on a $100 cell is $15, and the value of lithium in the cell is $5, you've broken the bank by costing the entire margin and then some.
Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it. The article…
> The article completely misses the fact that lithium is not the most important metal in a lithium-ion battery. More pounds of cobalt are required Yes, but then you should also say something about the relative availability of lithium and cobalt.
Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it. The article…
ED: Sounds interesting, I hope the economics work out. Current production of lithium is low because demand for lithium is low. Lithium @ 17 ppm is actually more common than Lead @ 10ppm in the earths crust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth... PS: 37,000 tonns of Lithium are produced in 2012 vs 5,200,000 of lead.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
ED: Sounds interesting, I hope the economics work out. Current production of lithium is low because demand for lithium is low. Lithium @ 17 ppm is actually more common than Lead @ 10ppm in the earths crust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth... PS: 37,000 tonns of Lithium are produced in 2012 vs 5,200,000 of lead.
Overall abundance of an element in the earth's crust doesn't mean as much as you'd think -- for example the element scandium is even more common than lead in the crust (20 ppm) and is a dream metal both in bulk and as a strengthening additive to aluminum, but due to a lack of readily extractable ores very little of it is produced a year. Lead is only as common and cheap as it is because it forms a variety of easy to…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not real worried about resource availability limiting production of batteries, but the lead comparison doesn't seem to provide much information about how much lithium can be produced over short to medium terms. I know next to nothing about geology, but a little browsing suggests that it is easy to find galena and that it is a much more productive ore than the typical lithium ores.
I am really only approaching this as an investor so take this in that context. My point was, it's not really a question of how much can be produced, but at what price you can produce it. Right now the market is paying ~6,000$ per tonne which has been fairly steady if slowly growing over time. With battery's making up about ~1/3 of the market. At say ~12,000$ per tonne production could double in well under 5 years. So…
And if it reached a quadruple it would become cost effective to extract it from the ocean?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worth pointing out that "cost-effective" in a competitive market is actually a pretty high bar. For context, lithium can be reliably extracted from seawater, with more available than humans could dream of using. To do so costs about $30/lb, which certainly isn't breaking the bank if you're using it for a car battery. Trouble is, the market price for lithium is closer to $5/lb, so good luck selling any. (Prices i…
So six times the price is not going to break the bank? Sure, aganst ten times the value of other msterials per weight of battery, it's not a bank breaker, but what is that price compared to the profit margin? If the margin on a $100 cell is $15, and the value of lithium in the cell is $5, you've broken the bank by costing the entire margin and then some.
Lithium doesn't weigh much of anything (even compared to oil), so a ton of Lithium is a LOT of lithium. Since as a commodity it's never traded in metallic form (too hazardous and energy-intensive to get it there, and not much market for straight metal, even as an input to battery production). It tends to be traded as carbonate, so a ton of lithium carbonate still has a very small amount of lithium in it. The article…
> Lithium occurs throughout the US in ores like Lepidolite, but it's never been considered cost-effective to extract it. I've found a way. That's an unusual claim. Lithium is actively being extracted by Albemarle in the US, in Nevada. They essentially have a monopoly on US lithium production via the Silver Peak mine. About 3.4% of the world's Lithium production comes out of that one mine. They're likely going to be a…
As I said, Lithium is extracted from briny lakes and salt deserts, which is what both of those US-based mines you provided links to are going after.
Nobody's going after ore for their Lithium. Almost nobody, anyway.