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Achievement Porn

petermichaud.com

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Re: Achievement Porn

#71

Post by te_platt »

raganwald wrote: post #20
te_platt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do. The author is calling on you to asses what you choose to achieve.

Normally spelling corrections are somewhere around Argument Level -1, but I just wanted to point out that when you wrote: "The author is calling on you to asses what you choose to achieve." I read it at a glance as The author is calling on you asses to choose what you want to achieve. A moment later I understood you meant assess , and while the two statements mean much the same thing, the one I misread is far more me…

That's funny. It's pretty sad when a spelling mistake improves my writing.

Re: Achievement Porn

#72

Post by wallflower »

derwiki wrote: post #63
grandpa wrote: post #18

Seneca wrote about this in _De Brevitate Vitae_ about 2,000 years ago, and unlike TFA, actually said it well. Those who do not study philosophy are condemned to blog mangled versions of it.

I've never heard of "De Brevitate Vitae", so TFA's blog-mangled version of it still seems useful. It also sparked this discussion on it.

Usually referred to by the title, "On the Shortness of Life"

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/04/13/stoicism-101...

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2009/04/24/on-the-short...

Re: Achievement Porn

#73

Post by jfi »

Pete – Great post! I understand your point that a site like StackOverflow awarding points, rep, badges, whatevers, is pointless and some people pursue them without stepping back to ask why (which is a bullsh*t pursuit on their part).

I would argue that some members that answer programming questions posed to them actually do take passion / interest in what they are doing AND their actions contribute to society (in this case – to the programming community in general and for the person asking the question specifically). It could also be a way for interested developers to initiate conversations, etc.

Where would you draw the line on something like this? When do you think taking part in a service like StackOverflow crosses the line into fake achievement / pointlessness? Interested to hear your thoughts, thanks!

Re: Achievement Porn

#74

Post by mkramlich »

Alex3917 wrote: post #24

Rule of thumb: Any organization that allows you to level up is out to fuck you, take your money, or both. Examples: School, corporations, scientology, military, world of warcraft, etc.

Roughly speaking, I agree with you. Essentially, any entity that wants to "trade you money for nothing" has a parasitic aspect to it. It's not black-or-white.

Re: Achievement Porn

#76

Post by mkramlich »

matt1 wrote: post #30
Alex3917 wrote: post #24

Rule of thumb: Any organization that allows you to level up is out to fuck you, take your money, or both. Examples: School, corporations, scientology, military, world of warcraft, etc.

What's the difference between "leveling up" and rising in a meritocracy? Ideally in any organization those talented enough to run it will rise to the top and "level up". If education and training help you achieve that, what's the problem?

Will a very talented engineer rise to the top to become the CEO? Unlikely. He's likely stay an engineer, or, leave the company. Or will a very political, charming, shmoozer, sociopathic, do-whatever-it-takes, business-savvy, friends-in-high-places sort of person reach CEO? Much more likely. There's also randomness and "luck".

Re: Achievement Porn

#78

Post by dx »

jamesbritt wrote: post #61
afgeneralist wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Trying to define what should be meaningful for other people is pretty arrogant and an insular perspective on life." - I think this statement is lazy in that it's taking the cultural relativist approach. By this token, we shouldn't make judgment on female circumcision in Africa, or the one child rule in China. In their societies these practices have very important value but I think most of us probably feel like it's…

'"Trying to define what should be meaningful for other people is pretty arrogant and an insular perspective on life." - I think this statement is lazy in that it's taking the cultural relativist approach.' And the funny thing is, such statements come off as absolutist claims about how other people should not be making absolutist claims. I mean, isn't it pretty arrogant to declare someone else, um, pretty arrogant? :)…

"I mean, isn't it pretty arrogant to declare someone else, um, pretty arrogant? :)"

Isn't it then also pretty arrogant to mean that it is pretty arrogant to declare someone else pretty arrogant? ;)

Re: Achievement Porn

#79

Post by Retric »

gridspy wrote: post #69
CoryOndrejka wrote: post #13

"Any achievement in a video game is a fake achievement" This is a great soundbite to build an essay around but ignores two decades of learning, cognitive, and psychological research. There are too many examples to try to pack into a comments, but among the most obvious: - 3D games are have been demonstrated to have positive effects on spatial perception and to allow rehearsal-based training for real-world activities…

How about : Any achievement the game rewards you for is a fake achievement. Whenever I go up a level in WoW, or gain a kill in Quake, or beat a boss and pick up his loot I have a fake achievement. Sure, there are some real achievements in there, but they are not provided by the game world - they are almost a side effect. Most likely they are not the reason that people are playing these games, but they are a useful ex…

IMO, an achievement is "real" when your actions are what separates a reasonable chance of failure and success. Thus the classic MMO grind fest, or a slot machine could be called fake achievements, but most PVP kills are actually fairly complex achievements.

Re: Achievement Porn

#80

Post by nostrademons »

dx wrote: post #78
jamesbritt wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'"Trying to define what should be meaningful for other people is pretty arrogant and an insular perspective on life." - I think this statement is lazy in that it's taking the cultural relativist approach.' And the funny thing is, such statements come off as absolutist claims about how other people should not be making absolutist claims. I mean, isn't it pretty arrogant to declare someone else, um, pretty arrogant? :)…

"I mean, isn't it pretty arrogant to declare someone else, um, pretty arrogant? :)" Isn't it then also pretty arrogant to mean that it is pretty arrogant to declare someone else pretty arrogant? ;)

Yup. And it's pretty arrogant to imply that it's pretty pretty arrogant to mean that it is pretty arrogant to declare someone else pretty arrogant.

I think this thread is heading for a stack overflow.

Anyway, I think a lot of these self-referential paradoxes have a simple resolution. Just refuse to play. I'll do what I want, and I'll ignore whether everyone else thinks it's justified or not.

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