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South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

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Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they had a very specific target. It was not a "throw money see what happens" kind of thing

And it wasn't done by throwing money at private contractors either, contractors were strictly overseen and some went oddly above and beyond e.g. on the building of Hanford > Groves recruited DuPont in November 1942 to be the prime contractor for the construction of the plutonium production complex. DuPont was offered a standard cost plus fixed fee contract, but the President of the company, Walter S. Carpenter, Jr.,…

Yes, there was much more patriotic (for better of worse) leadership at the helm of a lot of the corporations (also: the stories of Skunk Works delivering under budget). However, everything I've read about Groves also indicated that he was an amazingly proficient administrator for a very complex project.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#73
post #11

As a South Korean who experienced/heard about many government-backed researches, I strongly feel that this will go nowhere. Most of the time, there's always some bribery involved and project never finishes or come even close to that of the tech companies in US. The government then realizes it can't be done even with more money and puts the money elsewhere just to repeat the same thing. The examples that I can think o…

Care to provide some examples beyond your feelings? The South Korean government did pretty well with shipbuilding: http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=69...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Major_Rivers_Project#Crit...

17 billion $~ spent with little to show for it, with much allegations of corruption between President Lee & his ex-employer Hyundai constructions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ANQBP0Cq8 6 million $ spent on "robo-fish" to detect & observe water conditions, 7/9 units DOA; met 10% of targeted spec (speed/data networking bandwidth capabilities)

I think government sanctioned projects can work if the leader in charge has proper intent and skills & leadership to steer the resources.

This is far from the case with current Korean leadership; as Ms.Park was elected mostly based on her name recognition/ positive sentiments left by her dad. She is widely considered to be one of the most incompetent president ever to be elected into office.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#74
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you probably noticed from the article you linked, strong leadership was what made it possible. President Park is a controversial figure in Korea because of his ruthlessness and dictatorship but nevertheless contributed significantly to the country's economic growth. Under his rule, if people were caught accepting bribes from someone, they would face severe punishments for sure. Currently there is no such leadershi…

I don't know much about the old dictatorship. I do know this story is told about many dictatorships. In the others, the reality is that the dictatorship is even more corrupt but because there is no freedom of the press, nobody reports it and the dictator publishes their propaganda about how clean they are and how they are jailing people for corruption, when really they are jailing their opponents (like President Xi i…

Democracy is usually the best, and dictators are usually bad at managing economies, but there are exceptions.

Every once in a while, people luck out and get a competent dictator with proper leadership & economic understanding to direct resources to appropriate areas for economic growth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Chung-hee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew

Both brutal dictators; but widely considered to have done a fine job steering economies.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#75
post #11

As a South Korean who experienced/heard about many government-backed researches, I strongly feel that this will go nowhere. Most of the time, there's always some bribery involved and project never finishes or come even close to that of the tech companies in US. The government then realizes it can't be done even with more money and puts the money elsewhere just to repeat the same thing. The examples that I can think o…

Hwang woo suk and stem cells?

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#76
post #63
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apollo program would be a good counter example.

I feel comparisons to the Apollo and Manhatten projects, often brought up in this context, are misleading because they ignore the massive pure research bases they were building on. Of course they did do more pure research, but a lot of the cost and muscle/size was for solving engineering problems.

Both projects had clear tangible goals and a timeline to complete them by.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they had a very specific target. It was not a "throw money see what happens" kind of thing

And it wasn't done by throwing money at private contractors either, contractors were strictly overseen and some went oddly above and beyond e.g. on the building of Hanford > Groves recruited DuPont in November 1942 to be the prime contractor for the construction of the plutonium production complex. DuPont was offered a standard cost plus fixed fee contract, but the President of the company, Walter S. Carpenter, Jr.,…

Disney was similar during its wartime efforts; all of its operations done in service of the military (some trivial, like ship mascots and badges; others less so like recruitment films, and yet others critical like classified training videos) at cost even though they were offered a standard premium.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#78
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to provide some examples beyond your feelings? The South Korean government did pretty well with shipbuilding: http://m.koreatimes.co.kr/phone/news/view.jsp?req_newsidx=69...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Major_Rivers_Project#Crit... 17 billion $~ spent with little to show for it, with much allegations of corruption between President Lee & his ex-employer Hyundai constructions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ANQBP0Cq8 6 million $ spent on "robo-fish" to detect & observe water conditions, 7/9 units DOA; met 10% of targeted spec (speed/data networking bandwidth capabilities) I think…

17 billion $ spent, s/with little to show for it/which resulted in total ecological disaster in four major rivers/

During the summer these days, the state of the riverwater is humorously called "Nokjo (algal bloom) latte". See: https://www.google.com/search?q=%EB%85%B9%EC%A1%B0%EB%9D%BC%...

I'm actually happy that Park Geun-Hye is babbling about AI's. At least I can't think of any way that could do a long-lasting harm, other than burning taxypayers' $$$, but they're gonna do that anyway, so what's the difference?

Hopefully, in the next election we could find someone who could utter more than one coherent sentence at a time.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#79
post #44
post #11

As a South Korean who experienced/heard about many government-backed researches, I strongly feel that this will go nowhere. Most of the time, there's always some bribery involved and project never finishes or come even close to that of the tech companies in US. The government then realizes it can't be done even with more money and puts the money elsewhere just to repeat the same thing. The examples that I can think o…

That is true about ALL governments my friend. Obama just threw few billions at self driving cars which will not go anywhere.

The billions for self-driving cars, is not for technology, or to build cars, or to compete with Google / Apple / GM. It's to begin establishing a legal and infrastructure framework around the country that facilitates a shift to self-driving cars from the government's position as regulator, and ideally to do so safely. If they do nothing, given the sizable regulations in the US and from state to state regarding vehicles, then that shift is going to be a rolling disaster. They should probably be spending a lot more money to prep the ground for what's coming.

Re: South Korea announces $860M AI fund after AlphaGo 'shock'

#80

Oh My, The last time south korea's govt wanted to fuk some shit up. they destroyed the British shipping industry and took over the global electronics industry. Silicon Valley's VC money is nothing compared to what a nation state can achieve.

South Korea has less than 5% of the global electronics industry. Feel free to elaborate on how you think they took anything over.

Are you talking about Samsung? Because that's all the dominance South Korea has in the industry. Everything else is quite generic. Apple by itself is worth more than the entire South Korean electronics industry combined.

If nation state money were a primary determining factor, the USSR would have been a juggernaut, and Russia would be producing the best technology today. Instead, the USSR lost in nearly every possible regard to the private US technology industry. Nations keeps trying and trying to keep up with Silicon Valley by throwing money at the problem, and for half a century they have failed.

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