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How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

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Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#71
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Why is it, then, that crack cocaine is a high-penalty drug, and hallucinogens are low-penalty drugs? (I leave this as an exercise to the reader.)

Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix.

> Crack is highly physically addictive. People aren't out robbing houses to get their next acid fix.

Powder cocaine is literally the same drug as crack cocaine, yet the sentencing disparities since the 1980s have been completely out of sync. They've slightly converged in the last ~5 years (crack cocaine sentences have been reduced), but let's not pretend that the sentencing laws[0] have not been radically influenced by perceptions of associations of drugs with race.

> People aren't out robbing houses to get their next _____ fix

LSD is not physically addictive, but in general, I'll encourage you to question this line of thinking. Looking at whether people are "out robbing houses" glosses over the question of why people would commit robbery in order to purchase drugs, and the racial and socioeconomic issues that are inextricably linked to that.

Put another way: who's not committing robbery in order to purchase the drugs that they use, and why aren't they? Is it because their drug (e.g. powdered cocaine) is fundamentally less addictive? Or is it because they are already in a position in society that allows them other opportunities to finance their drug use? Is it a statement about the drug itself, or simply a statement about the social structures that already exist?

[0] If you want a really wonderful example of this, look at the reason that possession of <27g of marijuana was the only drug that was exempted from the Rockefeller drug laws' mandatory minimum sentencing. It was, quite literally, that kids in predominantly white and wealthy suburbs were being sentenced to prison time, and the parents wanted the judges to have discretionary power when sentencing them.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#72

> But it can’t be someone who got caught. Which for the most part means it can’t be someone who is black. It's thinking like this that pisses me off. Henderson wasn't hired because of a record. Yes, racism still unfortunately exists, but in order to move towards an equal future we need to stop bringing it up and searching for problems where there are none. Fucking Buzzfeed and Huffington post are constantly using the…

There is a very real problem here, and you don't have to search hard for it. An entire sub-population of this country was disproportionately sentenced to felony convictions. If we don't recognize that for what it was, we are condemning a generation of black people to just "suck it up, because we're thinking about the future now". That is a mistake because these people are part of the future, and they deserve a fair chance in it. Laws preventing felony offenders from finding work in their field only make sense if the felony conviction actually made sense. Preventing non-violent drug offenders from finding work in the burgeoning drug industry is as nonsensical as the offense they were charged with.

You can't just hit a reset button on racism and say all our mistakes our behind us, now we're all on the same level. Especially not when those mistakes were felony charges with lifelong consequences.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring up problems won't fix them.

But how does demonizing the legal weed industry by accusing it of being racists accomplish anything useful? They are clearly NOT being racist and just following the legal requirements for their industry. The fact that the ones being excluded are mainly black is not some conscious decision to exclude blacks but the result of the current laws and enforcement saddling them with felony drug convictions. The author's time…

Accomplish anything useful? Buzzfeed is about _generating ad revenue through clicks_, not about being useful or educational.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the damage addiction does to communities. When these laws were passed it was people in those affected communities demanding them. People forget there were huge community marches in the 80s/90s crack epidemics with locals demanding police rid their towns of crack dealers.

> People forget there were huge community marches in the 80s/90s crack epidemics with locals demanding police rid their towns of crack dealers. People also forget why those dealers were in the business in the first place. (Hint: the US government played a large role in explicitly financing the drug trade that resulted in a stead inflow of crack, predominantly to black communities[0]. Crack cocaine would not have been…

A steady influx of cocaine, which became too expensive when said shady agencies stopped what they were doing and local dealers decided to boil the expensive coke into crack so it became more affordable to addicts. Now there was a $5 per point addictive drug flooding poor areas with zero law enforcement to control it.

I remember big protests with black community leaders accusing the police of racism for not arresting crack dealers as their neighborhoods had become so dangerous police totally avoided them. They demanded new laws. Their newly elected reps ran on a platform of new tougher laws. The heavy hand of government then solved this by creating mandatory minimum sentencing and other laws that were blanket applied regardless of individual situation and created mass incarceration.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#75
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your remarks. But -- what I'm saying is that no one should feel sorry for this guy. It pains me to see the vast numbers of Americans who but a few years ago were for tough legislation and tough policies and who now desire to see criminals released from prison because the sentence may be too harsh. Really? If you do the crime, you do the time. We should not undo sentencing. It was all done legally at the…

>The morality in America has slipped precipitously since our heyday as a nation in the 1950s. Yea, the 1950's were really America's heyday (/s), while the rest of the world was blown up. I wonder if people in the 1920's were sipping on illegal booze at Gadsby's party thinking "man, the morality in america sure has taken a dive since the gilded age". Is your view so skewed by the media portrayal of the Jones' and whit…

[deleted]

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#77
post #48
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just bad statistics. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/race-and-justice-much-m... >For example, all of these “equally likely to have used drugs” claims turn out to be that blacks and whites are equally likely to have “used drugs in the past year”, but blacks are far more likely to have used drugs in the past week – that is, more whites are only occasional users. That gives blacks many more opportunities to…

> Likewise, whites are more likely to use low-penalty drugs like hallucinogens, and blacks are more likely to use high-penalty drugs like crack cocaine. Why is it, then, that crack cocaine is a high-penalty drug, and hallucinogens are low-penalty drugs? (I leave this as an exercise to the reader.)

> Why is it, then, that crack cocaine is a high-penalty drug, and hallucinogens are low-penalty drugs?

Because black communities in the 1980s pushed for a crackdown (pun intended) on the crack industry, while no-one really cares all that much about the hallucinogen industries.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#78
post #31

A secondary issue here is that a joints worth of pot was cause for a felony conviction. How is that punishment in any way fitting the crime.

This, right here. Felonies are supposed to be crimes which deserve execution: murder, rape — that kind of thing. They shouldn't be things which deserve a slap on the wrist at the absolute most.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#79
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Iain Bank's books "The Business" where the corporation in question was sitting on the perfect cocaine snorting delivery device ('the Incan'), speculatively developed and just waiting for the day the drug might become legal.

A tail wagging the dog is the notion I wish to deplore the most. Way too many people think that pure logic (and wisdom of experience) is what leads to their value-judgements and opinions. Like my example mom-and-pop broker above (who is no fat cat in the scheme of things, just someone too invested in the neoliberal capitalist paradigm to think straight anymore), they will switch their value judgements when their one…

So I was complaining about the tail wagging the dog.

It happens in terms of literal power and ownership, when money is produced and awarded in toxic ways, yet it is all that matters for obtaining power and ownership.

And it happens in terms of the mind: of people working in aid of a status quo which is being driven the wrong way.

Well guess what, you're not going to let some insane human elitists (how close is that guy Donald Trump to them? anything is too close for my comfort) try to drive me through the tail of the dog that is my life. If you have an insane and toxic system, then it's better to start getting radical.

Ah, but now -- how to get radical? There we all explode.

update, with recommended reading:

They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45, Milton Mayer

We either do or don't have people successfully playing at money/power/mind-game for the stakes of controlling the planet from the top down. Either way, I am afraid. Because a bunch of moronic dictators fighting each other unsuccessfully is no better than a single one successfully winning such a game.

Re: How Black People Are Being Shut Out of America's Weed Boom

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People forget there were huge community marches in the 80s/90s crack epidemics with locals demanding police rid their towns of crack dealers. People also forget why those dealers were in the business in the first place. (Hint: the US government played a large role in explicitly financing the drug trade that resulted in a stead inflow of crack, predominantly to black communities[0]. Crack cocaine would not have been…

A steady influx of cocaine, which became too expensive when said shady agencies stopped what they were doing and local dealers decided to boil the expensive coke into crack so it became more affordable to addicts. Now there was a $5 per point addictive drug flooding poor areas with zero law enforcement to control it. I remember big protests with black community leaders accusing the police of racism for not arresting…

Yes.

Now, let's think why white neighborhoods were not struggling with the same problems of violent crime due to the drug trade. We know that the answer is not

(a) white people weren't doing drugs

(b) white people were doing drugs that were less addictive

because in reality, white people had (and still have) roughly the same total rates of drug use as everyone else. And in this case, white people were largely using the same drug (cocaine, in powered form) as black people (cocaine, in freebase form).

I'm not saying that black people at the time weren't concerned with violent crime and calling for solutions to it. In fact, I'm usually the person who points this out whenever discussions about 80s and 90s drug law sentencing come up on HN. What I am saying instead is that it's silly to ignore the reason that black communities were concerned with problems that white communities never had to face in the first place.

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