What was thd class of the inmigrant? Where did they go to school? And were those that funded them immigrants?
Then the big picture emerges.
Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These are not the downtrodden masses. A lot of them are, if not downtrodden, at the least unable to earn a wage in the labor markets that is commensurate with their skill set.
Isn't that the limitation of the current immigration system, rather than anything on the immigrants themselves?
Not really. If you're a doctor in your home country, then most likely you'll be working in a grocery store or something in the U.S. If your professional certifications aren't honored, your work experience isn't considered valid, and you're not fluent in the language then you'd be lucky to be getting 1 / 10th what you'd otherwise be earning.
Jeff Bezos and Joshua Schachter aside, there's a probably a reason why relatively few successful wall street folks quit to do a startup.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not true. Unchecked immigration is always a negative for native workers. It can be accurately described as wealth redistribution from workers to the companies that employee them. They cause $515 billion in losses for native workers and $565 billion gains for native businesses. Look at the chart on page 9 https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/03-16-16%20Bo...
This is misrepresenting the data. The majority of economists and the relevant literature agree that allowing more freedom of immigration improves the welfare of American worker. This is ignoring the huge benefits to the immigrants themselves. To appeal to what I imagine HN's ideology is, the arguments are similar to those around making the market more free--when you prevent buyers and sellers from making transactions…
You tell me the data is misrepresented, please tell me how? The data in the charts are accurate and this is from an esteemed economist.
Actually read the article I linked and he discusses how the standard economics literature has completely misrepresented the impact of immigration on native workers.
>Finally, Peri and Yasenov look at workers aged 16-61, and this is a particularly weird data manipulation. Among adult workers, a high school dropout is someone who lacks a high school diploma. But that definition, when applied to teenagers, means that 16, 17, and 18-year-olds who are sophomores, juniors, or seniors in high school are classified as high school dropouts because they do not yet have that diploma. Let me emphasize: All teenagers, whose earnings consist mainly of what they get in part-time and summer jobs, are part of the low-skill group. There are so many high school students who are being lumped with the real high school dropouts that they fatally contaminate the analysis.
Also when people talk about the wealth inequality in the US and how wages have been stagnant for 30 years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_immigration_to_the_...
Look at the chart and notice how in the 1980s immigration begins to ramp up
http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
Notice that in 1979 wealth inequality skyrockets, which is logically consistent with the idea that immigration is wealth redistribution from displaced workers to their employers.
edit: look at the graph and compare the gap in wealth inequality. In 1995 when immigration is slown down wealth inequality stays constant. When immigration is ramped up, inequality grows like crazy.
edit: for whatever it's worth I made the connection between wealth inequality and immigration. so try not to use that to say my source is bad
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#74Not on a serious note...this title could be phrased as 'With no immigrants flooding, americans will found 100% of U.S. Billion-Dollar startups'
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tons of people who emigrated are poor but are more motivated to take on risk and work on things. Because immigration is taking on risk and because you have to work on documents and push your way through to leave.
Immigrants are a self-selecting group. The barriers you have to cross leave the most motivated individuals/families capable of coming here. The immigrating generation, at least from my experience, come with the intention of setting up their children with better possibilities. Their lives revolve around making their kids hard workers in school, which transfers over into their character. There's a joke in my community…
> Immigrants are a self-selecting group
I find this offensive, as an immigrant. Also, my mother (and sister) worked in a sweat shop (they needle thread tags on imported/fake clothes underneath a laundromat) to put food on the table while going to school. My mother didn't "sacrifice" everything for us, she worked hard; became a programmer; and didn't allow my sibling and I to work less then her.
> There's a joke in my community between the younger generation that we all had two choices after high school. You could choose to be a lawyer or doctor. If your parents were kind, then you could be an engineer.
First time I had a steak, I was 18 years old and working as a waiter...the steak was $5 if you were staff. Prior, my understanding of meat product was salami and hot dogs.
It's great when you have the ability to go to law/med school but that doesn't work for all folks. Immigrants have a tireless work ethic because they know what it's like to be hungry. As a kid, I slept on top of a pig pen (it was the coolest place on the farm) and waited two hours to get milk for my family (before they woke up). That strength, commitment, and desire is what drives immigrants to achieve. Joking about law school is not really an option where I come from.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#76These are not the downtrodden masses. Immigrant does not mean poor. These are wealthy upper class people coming to the most logical place to create a successful technology company, because they can afford to do so. Poor people are usually stuck wherever they are. Investors in Silicon Valley care a lot about status and pedigree. A foreigner that can afford elite credentials is far more likely to get funding than a poo…
First, educated and immigrants of means are a great addition to any economy they go to and a drain to the economies they leave. It's understandable why educated people might want to leave a country with few economic opportunities for their careers. What I'm not so clear on is what attracts educated people of means to emigrate to the US [and AU and UK] from otherwise stable mature economies? We're better off for them,…
I come from Spain, and the situation was very easy: Spain's cities have a midwest-like cost of living. A programmer there, right out of school, is what we call a mileurista: Someone with a take home of about a thousand Euros a month. In comparison, my first job in the midwest paid three times that. And that's the difference at the beginning of a career. Nobody programming over there will make more than, maybe, 3500 euros a month, unless they start their own company. Last year, I went past 18K a month, in a stable, 9-5 job. The market is so good, I could quit my job any day I want, and I get to choose among a bunch of great alternatives, including bay area companies that hire remotes. In comparison, Spain has about 20% unemployment.
If anything, I would ask other programmers from Spain why in the world aren't they leaving!
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#77I'm not a U.S. citizen, and obviously one day I hope to be one of those U.S. Billion-Dollar startup founders and I would appreciate a VISA if it would help me achieve that, but there's something shaky with the premise here. Why does the U.S. need to depend on the ~80.000 odd first order immigrants per year to generate that amount of wealth. Couldn't the U.S. somehow draw those ambitious out of its current population?…
When an Elon Musk or a Max Levchin shows up in your country itching to get to work, the best course of action is not to say, "couldn't we some how draw your kind of ambition out of a local?" Far better is to give them visas let them build in your country rather than elsewhere.
Levchin moved to the US when he was 16. His family was granted political asylum. His move to the US therefore not based on any "itch" to get to work.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#78We're talking theses United States right?! So unless you're talking 'bout Native Americans then 99%+ of all companies since 1776 have been created by Immigrants. Think about folks!
If so, how did us Europeans "immigrating" to the US work out for the Native Americans?
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#79I'm not a U.S. citizen, and obviously one day I hope to be one of those U.S. Billion-Dollar startup founders and I would appreciate a VISA if it would help me achieve that, but there's something shaky with the premise here. Why does the U.S. need to depend on the ~80.000 odd first order immigrants per year to generate that amount of wealth. Couldn't the U.S. somehow draw those ambitious out of its current population?…
When an Elon Musk or a Max Levchin shows up in your country itching to get to work, the best course of action is not to say, "couldn't we some how draw your kind of ambition out of a local?" Far better is to give them visas let them build in your country rather than elsewhere.
The better option is to make sure that everyone in your country that has the POTENTIAL to be an Elon Musk gets the education and skills they need to become him. Elon went to many prestigious private schools and had early childhood access to expensive computers, which is a common thread in MANY founders and current executives and VCs in the startup world.
Meanwhile I know a lot of smart people who don't go to college in the US because they don't want to be saddled with $100k in debt. And a lot more who don't persue higher degrees because their parents aren't poor enough to receive assistance but not rich enough to pay for college. We do a terrible job of helping people in America live up to their potential - its the best country to be born rich in, but the worst first-world country to be born poor in.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
OPT doesn't last very long (18 months max I think). The standard path for students is F1->OPT->H1B->Green Card->Citizen.
It's now three years for stem https://www.att.com/deviceunlock/
The STEM extension is a recent (2008) development, probably motivated by the fact that H1-Bs are now a lottery so students need multiple shots to have a chance at winning.
Back when Musk would've applied, that wasn't a problem, he would've gotten an H1-B pretty easily.
While you can go straight from OPT to green card, getting an H1-B first is much better since it's dual intent, so you're not prevented from traveling during the green card application (which you would be on OPT).