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Everyone’s offended these days

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Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#71

Post by jackcosgrove »

cconroy wrote: post #62
wavefunction wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dawkins and everyone else in the world are certainly entitled to express themselves, but there are also repercussions for that expression. He's said some rather dim-witted stuff about religions in general and some religions in particular and while I will defend to the death his right to say those things, it doesn't reflect all that well on his person imo.

What is the worst thing he said that was dim-witted that you remember off hand? Generally curious, he defends his positions rather well I believe.

For one he has attacked Christianity for being, well, religulous, more than he has attacked Islam. And that doesn't mean Christianity is more religulous than Islam; it means Dawkins is a coward and fears fewer repercussions from attacking Christianity than from attacking Islam.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#72

Post by twoquestions »

For those who don't want to comb through the article, the TL;DR seems to be:

"Criticism of bad behavior is good and necessary, but it far too easily spirals into a howling typhoon of nonstop vitriol and hate that's difficult for the target to deal with, especially if they're not rich/powerful."

Still I'd recommend reading, it's not as long as it looks.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#73

Post by slantyyz »

allenskd wrote: post #34
gambiting wrote: post #13

Well, the author's suggestion that everything is fine, trolls can be ignored and Fry is somehow hypocritical with being fed up with trolls and offended people is really something that I cannot agree with. Twitter, by its very own format, encourages the worst in the human behaviour. Those who shout loudest get the most visibility, and it has the very real potential to destroy lives and encourage mob justice which is j…

I agree. I feel like people amplify their emotional reasoning to the extreme with social networks enough to jump into whatever moralistic "shoulds" or anything that can get them behind the "right", sort of like putting your morals on the line in a popularity contest, a hell of a emotional rollercoaster. People seldom take perspective and context in account. Especially if they all go into the angry mob mentality as yo…

>> People seldom take perspective and context in account.

Part of the problem is the speed that the Internet affords us. People feel the need/urge to respond to things instantly, which often prevents them from taking a breath to get some perspective or maybe to even do some fact checking.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#74

Post by [deleted] »

Loughla wrote: post #37
theseatoms wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree that other people's feelings are hard to know. (Possibly unknowable.) I just can't recall ever in my life having been offended, so I'm skeptical.

What you're doing is translating your experience to the human experience. With 7,000,000,000 of us, there's more than a fair chance that someone else's experience is different than yours. Put simply, (but not meant as an insult) you're not thinking about anyone but yourself.

[deleted]

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#75

Post by theseatoms »

Loughla wrote: post #37
theseatoms wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree that other people's feelings are hard to know. (Possibly unknowable.) I just can't recall ever in my life having been offended, so I'm skeptical.

What you're doing is translating your experience to the human experience. With 7,000,000,000 of us, there's more than a fair chance that someone else's experience is different than yours. Put simply, (but not meant as an insult) you're not thinking about anyone but yourself.

Yes, I realize that there are all sorts of human experiences that I've never, and will never, have. I'm simply asking if anyone else here has truly been offended by something they read on the internet. Because the concept is completely foreign to me.

And yes, I see the potential for irony- that I'm on my soapbox, much like someone who is offended might be. But I'm not offended by anything that's been said. I'm not against criticism or disagreement or reasoned arguments. I'm just frustrated by the chilling effects that the prevailing cultural climate, which is humorless, politically-correct, and context-free, has had and will continue to have on public discourse.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#76

Post by glenda »

tomp wrote: post #58
glenda wrote: post #47

It's pretty interesting that the people complaining about people being offended too often are so easily "triggered" by other people being offended. I've been noticing this a lot lately, even on HN. Someone will mention equality or fairness and there will be a whole slew of people complaining about how people are too sensitive now-a-days. In reality, those complainers are being overly sensitive themselves.

> It's pretty interesting that the people complaining about people being offended too often are so easily "triggered" by other people being offended. Not really (for me). I couldn't care less if you're offended. But if you start attacking me because I offended you (or someone else), and start making the general discussion impossible ("pissing in the pool"), then of course I'll oppose you, not because I'm "triggered",…

Of course these discussions do get out of hand, and it's true that not all forms of inequality are completely valid in all cases, but it seems best to ignore the people you disagree with instead of trying to convince them to be like you. This goes for all discussions both on and offline. However, if you're in an arena where being argumentative is encouraged than you should have a better argument than "stop being so sensitive!" and the other side should have an argument other then "things are unfair" or else you barely even have a real conversation going.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#77

Post by Mithaldu »

tomp wrote: post #44
krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

Came here to post this. The author of this post just made the biggest possible strawman: > “Now the pool is stagnant, …frothy with scum.” Fry’s feelings aren’t feelings — they are a universal and objective standard of behavior, which everyone else is violating. When he says "stagnant, frothy with scum" I don't interpret that as him complaining about his feelings , but rather that the discussion / communication (which…

You missed what he was saying. He's saying that Fry has feelings. He has an urge to talk about the feelings he has, but simultaneously feels he can't mention they're his feelings. So he rationalizes it into objective facts (which also prevents people from answering usefully).

In short: He says Fry is trying to claim his subjective views as objective facts.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#78

Post by Nexxxeh »

I take an opposing view, and not because of any love for Fry.

OP of TFA says, "I love Stephen Fry, really I do".

I am someone who loathes Stephen Fry, with his pseudo-intellectual wittering, his incorrect presumption of understanding of technical matters, and his flippant arrogance. He has been described as "a stupid person's idea of a clever person", something I wouldn't disagree with.

Watching him stupidly misinform viewers of Qi about how GPS works is one thing. Reading him butcher the history of Dr Gary Kildall is another. I'd argue the latter could reasonably be said to be "offensive" to most of the HN crowd.

With that said, I don't think Fry's wrong on this.

Twitter (and Tumblr) have become a hive for the professionally and vicariously offended. From the de-verifying of Milo Yiannopoulos, to this case which resulted in Fry sulking off Twitter yet again, Twitter especially seems to have it institutionally ingrained.

The bag lady remark was not unreasonable, nor mean-spirited. Nor was it taken as such by the lady in question.

If you don't like Twitter, you can log the heck off. One is not forced to use Twitter, certainly not with one's own real-world identity. If you don't like it, you can say so, take a bow, and take your 120 characters elsewhere. As Fry has done.

Twitter and Facebook are not the bastions of Free Speech they might claim to be, but they do host proponents of both sides of most debates. If you say something unpopular or something divisive, rightly or wrongly, you risk taking flack.

But a boatload of people calling you a dick on Twitter is not the equivalent of people throwing bricks through your window. Some people just need to get a perspective.

Free speech is a double-edged sword. It is, however, required for freedom, liberty, democracy, real equality and progress. Part of that is accepting people are going to say stuff that you personally don't like.

A lot of people will disagree with my views on Fry. He is effectively a British institution at this point. And that's fine. They can happily complain bitterly about my characterization of him, although the number people would actually care about what I say is probably rather small. That's all fine. That's free speech. And I'm sure we all agree free speech is preferable to the alternative.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#79

Post by krig »

Mithaldu wrote: post #77
tomp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to post this. The author of this post just made the biggest possible strawman: > “Now the pool is stagnant, …frothy with scum.” Fry’s feelings aren’t feelings — they are a universal and objective standard of behavior, which everyone else is violating. When he says "stagnant, frothy with scum" I don't interpret that as him complaining about his feelings , but rather that the discussion / communication (which…

You missed what he was saying. He's saying that Fry has feelings. He has an urge to talk about the feelings he has, but simultaneously feels he can't mention they're his feelings. So he rationalizes it into objective facts (which also prevents people from answering usefully). In short: He says Fry is trying to claim his subjective views as objective facts.

His whole blog post is him talking about his feelings. Those are his feelings.

Re: Everyone’s offended these days

#80

Post by jdietrich »

cconroy wrote: post #40
krig wrote: post #33

This is a complete misunderstanding of what that quote from Stephen Fry is saying. Of course people get offended. Everyone get offended all the time! So what? He's doing exactly the right thing: He isn't having fun using Twitter, so he stops using it. He's not claiming that getting offended is somehow beneath him, he's saying that getting offended is no big deal. It's everyone else who is making a big deal out of him…

I dont know Fry but he isn't handling things as well as Dawkins does it seems. Dawkins has a hilarious video of him reading the most hateful tweets. You have to be careful. Some of the people who complain about others being offended all the time are the biggest babies. [Edit] If he is leaving bc it is no fun anymore that is an excellent reason.

Stephen Fry has bipolar disorder. His most recent suicide attempt was in 2012. His decision to leave Twitter is entirely understandable and sensible.
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