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Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

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Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#71
post #70
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US Law does not apply to Costa Rica-- it's outside their jurisdiction. That's one of the fundamental problems here. The US could pass a law that Sainsburies (a UK grocery store, with no US locations) has to employ a jazz band at every one of their stores for 3 hours every friday afternoon... but it doesn't matter, because the US does not have jurisdiction over the UK. Even if a US citizen goes and visits and stops by…

The whole concept of jurisdiction & borders is an illusion. Any entity can apply any arbitrary law anywhere, provided they can enforce it. The reality is that the US is a superpower in terms of military, economics & political force. If the US really wants a jazz band at every store, the UK may be in a strong enough position to fight back, but Costa Rica would most likely have to employ that jazz band as it couldn't p…

There is no better illustration of this than the US eventually persuading Sweden to railroad The Pirate Bay, despite the fact that it was well-established that TPB was perfectly legal in Sweden.

As it stands today, there are some entities that are effectively more equal under the law because they have infinity money. One of the most important rules for a successful adult life is to never cross anyone with infinity money (unless you yourself also possess infinity money). Money talks.

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#72
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from what i understand, they were nailed for providing services to americans (citizens and corporations), and that falls under uncle sam's jurisdiction.

Why? Are Parisians subject to US law when selling to American tourists? The notion of sovereignty is that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

The problem is that telecom in general, but especially the internet, has made the old concepts of jurisdiction and borders, which were developed when people had to be in the same place at the same time to interact, really muddy.

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#73

Isn't every non-US country, and every bank in those countries, operating an "unlicensed money-transmitting service" as far as the US government is concerned? I'm a little curious about where the lines are drawn.

No, see 31 US 5330 and related code sections.

I don't get it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/31/5330 doesn't seem to mention anything relevant.

I also don't understand the downvotes. I'm asking a serious question because I'm curious - if this company was operated by a Russian citizen living in Moscow (or by an Albanian citizen in Albania, or a Swiss citizen in Switzerland, or even let's say by the North Korean government) - what would have happened here?

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identity theft and credit card fraud are victimless crimes?

Stealing CC is bad thing. But why punish LR for this and not IT professionals who stole them? Or Visa who still cannot make secure payment system? Or Microsoft who cannot make secure operating system?

Conspiracy or facilitation are criminal acts because they're part of larger criminal acts (murder, fraud, etc.). From what I've read, LR knew that the monies passed through it were the result of crimes, and they knowingly structured their business so as to make it easier for customers who committed financial crimes to launder those monies. PayPal, Visa, and Microsoft do not knowingly structure their businesses or products around the facilitation of crimes, nor do they knowingly support criminal activities. Crimes happen in spite of their respective businesses, not because of them.

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#76

Why is it illegal to operate money transfer? Why founders are responsible for the crimes committed by its users? Are they guilty because the business was "unlicensed" or did they specifically promoted crime in some way?

You can't operate MSB these days without complying with regulations regardless of where you operate from. Laws for MSB's anywhere require them to comply with legislation based on where their costumers are originated. When you move money from your US account to your friends in the UK through say PayPal; PayPal has to comply with the regulations in both the US and the UK. Amongst those things the MSB also needs to ensu…

What is "MSB"?

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if HN reader implies that Federal Reserve Banks are waging or somehow supposed to wage war on drugs, that is sad. i was just trying to point that.

“HN reader” implies that charging LR for facilitating money landering is just as absurd.

not to nitpick, but "HN reader" said:

"The feds also actively try to combat drug sales. LR made little to no efforts to do so."

[sad to hear this from HN reader, who is using terms fed(eral reserve banks) and fed(eral bureau of investigation) interchangeably]

to which another HN reader replied with well done sarcastic remark and was immediately downvoted. i asked "why all these downvotes?", and got immediately downvoted myself. can't get frigging karma above the floor level...

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#78
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from what i understand, they were nailed for providing services to americans (citizens and corporations), and that falls under uncle sam's jurisdiction.

Why? Are Parisians subject to US law when selling to American tourists? The notion of sovereignty is that when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

LR was servicing american customers on american soil. not tourists. i am not justifying uncle sam, just observing.

Re: Founder of Liberty Reserve Pleads Guilty to Laundering More Than $250M

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't operate MSB these days without complying with regulations regardless of where you operate from. Laws for MSB's anywhere require them to comply with legislation based on where their costumers are originated. When you move money from your US account to your friends in the UK through say PayPal; PayPal has to comply with the regulations in both the US and the UK. Amongst those things the MSB also needs to ensu…

What is "MSB"?

Money services business - pretty much any business which facilitates the transfer of funds or exchange of currencies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_services_business
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