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The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

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Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#71

Post by noname123 »

sanderjd wrote: post #66
sam_goody wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. As soon as it became as easy to create video as it was to draw, people created video content, not just consumed it. When sharing (youtube) was easy, the levels of creation have grown unbounded. The amount of media in all forms that is being created today is astounding. That's digital drawing If coding was as easy as writing we would find at least as much growth there. I know dozens of people who have idea…

Is programming really harder than writing a memoir? It seems to be the other way around to me.

IMHO,

Coding a simple mainentence script is equal to writing a diary entry.

Coding a CRUD web app is as hard as writing an average short story in a college writing class.

Coding an app that uses heavily system programming principles, concurrency and networking probably equal to MFA level creative writing and so on...

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#72

Post by eli_gottlieb »

sparkie wrote: post #46
IIAOPSW wrote: post #29

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here. Most people are not creative. Its true. There isn't some horde of people who want to program but don't know it yet because they own a tablet instead of a computer. There isn't some horde of musicians that will never know it because their music comes from an mp3 instead of their own instrument. There isn't some horde of artists who will never know it because their i…

Most adults are consumers, but children are curious. You're looking at the wrong group if you think any kind of revolution will happen among the current generations. When people argue that not everyone needs to learn to program, I contrast it to the idea that not everyone needs to learn to read. If you imagine the demand for competent readers before the printing press, it would be a similar situation to the demand fo…

>When people argue that not everyone needs to learn to program, I contrast it to the idea that not everyone needs to learn to read.

Programming is active/productive. Reading is semi-active/consumptive. The proper analogy would be the idea that everyone needs to learn to write well.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#73

Post by TRUTHY56 »

this article is nonsense. it is like saying the transportation revolution will happen only when people are able to build/modify their own cars, instead of looking at widespread use as the revolution's measure because the technology is easy for even a layperson to use.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#74

Post by daveguy »

agumonkey wrote: post #24
daveguy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started programming in the 80s with BASIC as an 8 year old. So yes, it was very possible in the 80s for kids younger than 10 to learn to program. AdBlock is in reference to the quote from the early 70's from Alan Kay as a suggestion of one of the first "simple programs" a computer user might want to program. This was in the 70s long before ARPA net was called the internet and he had the foresight to identify ads as…

Maybe people think that an 'app' has some intrinsic value whereas a basic demo is just spaghetti. ps: any source for Alan Kay ads quote ?

I take it you aren't a programmer.

1) most everyone learns to code with a short demo.

2) short demos for learning to program and understanding concepts are essentially spaghetti free -- the problem is you can't even do the simplest "hello world" in walled app gardens that require elaborate toolkits and permissions.

3) source from the fine article: originally published in Proceedings of the ACM National Conference, Boston (August 1972)

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#75

Post by nitrogen »

Pamar wrote: post #23
nitrogen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But heres the thing. Most people don't care. It's never been a better time to be a programmer. But the vast majority of people don't want to be. That just means the tools aren't done yet.

Hammers and screwdrivers are - I think - pretty mature tools. Still lots of people do not care for DIY and prefer to buy premade or pay someone else to take care of custom solutions.

Hammers and screwdrivers still require quite a bit of thought and planning. IMO, the tools of the "real computer revolution" won't be done until they're at least as effortless as the Star Trek holodeck ("computer, give me a table here, made out of metal").

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#76

Post by agumonkey »

daveguy wrote: post #74
agumonkey wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people think that an 'app' has some intrinsic value whereas a basic demo is just spaghetti. ps: any source for Alan Kay ads quote ?

I take it you aren't a programmer. 1) most everyone learns to code with a short demo. 2) short demos for learning to program and understanding concepts are essentially spaghetti free -- the problem is you can't even do the simplest "hello world" in walled app gardens that require elaborate toolkits and permissions. 3) source from the fine article: originally published in Proceedings of the ACM National Conference, Bo…

> I take it you aren't a programmer.

that burn

If I say I won the putnam does it make a difference ?

ps: thanks for the ACM ref.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#77

Post by daveguy »

agumonkey wrote: post #76
daveguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you aren't a programmer. 1) most everyone learns to code with a short demo. 2) short demos for learning to program and understanding concepts are essentially spaghetti free -- the problem is you can't even do the simplest "hello world" in walled app gardens that require elaborate toolkits and permissions. 3) source from the fine article: originally published in Proceedings of the ACM National Conference, Bo…

> I take it you aren't a programmer. that burn If I say I won the putnam does it make a difference ? ps: thanks for the ACM ref.

Then maybe you're a programmer that was so gifted you didn't have to learn like the rest of us (with hello world and simple number guessing games). If so, I completely understand why you would have the impression that simple demo code isn't necessary and everyone should just jump right into codin' apps. Sorry for the burn. You should be aware that basic demo code has quite a bit of intrinsic value especially when the users are free to try it out on their own.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#78

Post by [deleted] »

agumonkey wrote: post #76
daveguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you aren't a programmer. 1) most everyone learns to code with a short demo. 2) short demos for learning to program and understanding concepts are essentially spaghetti free -- the problem is you can't even do the simplest "hello world" in walled app gardens that require elaborate toolkits and permissions. 3) source from the fine article: originally published in Proceedings of the ACM National Conference, Bo…

> I take it you aren't a programmer. that burn If I say I won the putnam does it make a difference ? ps: thanks for the ACM ref.

[deleted]

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#79

Post by agumonkey »

daveguy wrote: post #77
agumonkey wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I take it you aren't a programmer. that burn If I say I won the putnam does it make a difference ? ps: thanks for the ACM ref.

Then maybe you're a programmer that was so gifted you didn't have to learn like the rest of us (with hello world and simple number guessing games). If so, I completely understand why you would have the impression that simple demo code isn't necessary and everyone should just jump right into codin' apps. Sorry for the burn. You should be aware that basic demo code has quite a bit of intrinsic value especially when the…

I think there's a mistake somewhere. I meant to say that in the public eye, old days demos are toys because it was a niche thing compared to today's ubiquitous web and apps that people can relate to and value.

And I was mostly kidding about the burn thing, I just didn't expect it.

Re: The Computer Revolution Has yet to Happen

#80

Post by type0 »

_ph_ wrote: post #31
zepto wrote: post #3

This is gibberish. The programming tools on the iPad are already quite powerful - far better than those old basic powered micros. There is also no reason to believe that XCode or the equivalent will not come to iOS now that the devices are nearly performant enough. As far as a completely open system like Smalltalk goes - that was a wonderful world which I wish we lived in, but we don't - not because of Apple, but bec…

Apple does not have to open up the whole system - there are some good reasons for limiting the access of applications to the system part of the filesystem and the bare hardware. However, Apple also very much limits the ability to run e.g. Squeak as an app on IOS, you might run it, but not download source code over the internet. And if you read the Anandtech iPad Pro test you can see how much software is held back by…

Ipad dumbs down personal computing by doing things in this way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAghAJcO1o (Alan Kay talk, 14-15min)
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