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The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

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Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#71

Post by tigeba »

lectrick wrote: post #68
tigeba wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that the decrease during cold weather is more a function of the lowered performance of the battery than the result of the cabin heating. The battery draw at freeway speed is maybe 30kw. The baseline draw from the accessories in the vehicle ( radio, console ) and no heating/cooling/defroster is around 0.5kw. With the heat cranked up all the way and all the various heaters turned up to high the additio…

Of course I can't find the links now via Google, but I saw an announcement recently (multiple actually) about batteries in development that are not affected by cold temperatures AND have higher charge capacity AND speed than Li-Ion. I believe (guessing here) it involved aluminum (but not those charge-only-once aluminum-air batteries... something else). If those batteries were released commercially within the next 5 y…

I have just been scheduling a 100% charge overnight when its below freezing to compensate for the loss of battery efficiency. Normally I just charge to 80%. This is mostly just for peace of mind, my trip is about 20 miles each way.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#72

Post by m-i-l »

andygates wrote: post #70
m-i-l wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla did have battery swap stations where the battery would be swapped in around 90 seconds (less time than it takes to fill up a tank)[0]. However, uptake was apparently very small so focus was shifted to building the network of supercharger stations[1]. [0] https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program [1] http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/10/tesla-battery-swap/

The more interesting question, then, becomes "why didn't you swap your battery?" to drivers who charged instead.

Charging is currently free, whereas the battery swap was US$60.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#73

Post by MagnumOpus »

komodo wrote: post #26
eloisant wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but when you buy your car it's important to realize that these $7,500 are not just free money, they have a direct impact on your car resell value. So if you buy a leaf that starts at $30,000, get rebates to $20,000, you must remember that since anyone can get it new for $20,000 that's the actual "new" value to take before you apply depreciation. In other words you're not really buying a $30k car for $20k, you'…

So it follows that right before the rebate ends is the best time to buy?

Correct.

But only if the reason why the rebate is ending is a breakthrough in technology that will cut the price of a new one by more than the rebate in 2-3 -- which is in a sense what happened with solar subsidies in a lot of places.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#74

Post by toomuchtodo »

m-i-l wrote: post #33
vlehto wrote: post #8

Good electric car battery standard would solve almost all of the problems of electric cars. 1. The battery is where most development happens and where it's most needed. So you don't have to worry about your car getting too old too fast. Just get fresh battery. 2. Range: just swap the battery if you run out of juice. They could be rented like gas bottles are at service station. 3. Battery charge lifespan. 4. Potential…

Tesla did have battery swap stations where the battery would be swapped in around 90 seconds (less time than it takes to fill up a tank)[0]. However, uptake was apparently very small so focus was shifted to building the network of supercharger stations[1]. [0] https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program [1] http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/10/tesla-battery-swap/

Tesla's battery swap station was a compliance tool in order to collect ZEV credits in California. A battery swap station costs ~$500K, while a Supercharger station with charging stalls costs $150K.

Tesla has determined that Supercharging is adequate for Tesla owners, and continued uptake of the product seems to confirm that hypothesis.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#75

Post by greglindahl »

andygates wrote: post #70
m-i-l wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla did have battery swap stations where the battery would be swapped in around 90 seconds (less time than it takes to fill up a tank)[0]. However, uptake was apparently very small so focus was shifted to building the network of supercharger stations[1]. [0] https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/battery-swap-pilot-program [1] http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/10/tesla-battery-swap/

The more interesting question, then, becomes "why didn't you swap your battery?" to drivers who charged instead.

You had to swap back to your own battery on the way home. When I drive SF/LA, I go down on I5 (passing the swap station) and come back up the coast.

If Teslas had leased batteries it would be easier, but they do not.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#76

Post by bradtemp »

vlehto wrote: post #8

Good electric car battery standard would solve almost all of the problems of electric cars. 1. The battery is where most development happens and where it's most needed. So you don't have to worry about your car getting too old too fast. Just get fresh battery. 2. Range: just swap the battery if you run out of juice. They could be rented like gas bottles are at service station. 3. Battery charge lifespan. 4. Potential…

Battery swap failed after a $700M investment from Better Place for many reasons. But the big issue is that with battery swap, car owners do not buy or own their battery. But most of the innovation is in the battery. For innovation, you need competitive markets with lots of buyers and lots of competitors. It's much harder to have that with swap

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#77

Post by bradtemp »

spo81rty wrote: post #9

Most people buy a car every three years. Sounds similar to how often people switch cell phones. I don't think electric cars change much in regards to people always wanting something different or the shiny new model. The awesome thing about the Tesla is all the over the air updates. Other car makers want you to buy the new model to get the new features. I worked in the car biz for a long time.

While many people do buy a car every 3 to 5 years, they sell that car to somebody else, and the average car lasts about 19 years, with several owners. On the other hand, cell phones are sometimes resold but not nearly in the same way. Many of us have those old phones in the drawer, and would still do that even if there were a big ecosystem for selling them.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#78

Post by bsder »

forgetsusername wrote: post #10
eoinmurray92 wrote: post #5

Since people would start to want to buy cars more frequently because of the constant increate in performance/features (which the article is saying will be faster than the current state of motor innovation), would the car manufacturers be able to offer lower-cost models that would be bought every 3/4 years. They could recoup the money from cheaper cars from the faster purchase cycle. Or else move to a leasing model (t…

> would the car manufacturers be able to offer lower-cost models that would be bought every 3/4 years. I think people buying new cars every 3 or 4 years is already the status quo, regardless of cost. That's the average lease/finance period (though financing duration is increasing).

> I think people buying new cars every 3 or 4 years is already the status quo, regardless of cost. That's the average lease/finance period (though financing duration is increasing).

Not where I come from. Most of the folks I know are sitting on 8+ year old cars.

Leasing is useless in the US at this point because you are on the hook for the full price of the car if you get in an accident and total it.

Re: The Electric Car may be entering its “cell phone” period

#79

Post by bsder »

glossyscr wrote: post #4

As the long as the charging is not way faster I do not see mass adoption. If you're using cars just in the city then charging is no issue but for long distance travel it is one. Only way is to own at least two cars but this can't be the solution.

So? In the US, owning two cars is not at all uncommon.

Making the one you use for your daily commute an EV and the other one a gasoline engine is still a huge improvement in air quality.

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