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Running 50km after 82h of fasting

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Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#71

Post by kolbe »

pneumatics wrote: post #36
runjake wrote: post #23

A couple points: * He ran 50 KM in 7 hours and 45 minutes, which amounts to fast walking. In real terms, he probably ran some but probably walked most of it. * If you're going to do something like this, please do it under the supervision of a medical doctor. A 50km isn't a big deal, virtually anyone who can run a marathon can run a 50k, but people do die during this events. Respect the distance. Edit: Here is his Str…

This is a gnarly run. Almost 7000 ft of climbing (he gives the value in m, but all my reference points are in feet). It appears he was not auto-pausing, but did stop quite a bit. The time spent moving was 5:49. His pace, excluding the time stopped, was 11:12 min/mi. With the elevation gain, this is most definitely running.

For reference on how to normalize the elevation gain, I like to add 1.5 miles for every 1000 feet of elevation gain/loss (combo). So, in the way I plan, I'd look at that 50k like a 41 mile run on flat ground.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#72

Post by unethical_ban »

tacos wrote: post #52
jimrandomh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a blog post on the author's personal blog. It doesn't even have ads on it. I really don't see a legitimate objection here. Just take the data for what it is - a report of something one specific person was able to do, which other peoples' physiology might or might not be able to handle, plus some speculation about our distant evolutionary history.

> This is a blog post on the author's personal blog No, the context is now reframed as a post on a highly-influential site, this one. The author is now commenting here, which is great. But "Don't try something like this without at least talking to a doctor, I probably should have" has yet to appear on the post. Therefore I reserve the right to state my objection.

You're not giving enough credit (or responsibility) to readers to say "Hm, I should consider the risks and other considerations before implementing this myself".

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#73

Post by matwood »

brianwawok wrote: post #39
pneumatics wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a gnarly run. Almost 7000 ft of climbing (he gives the value in m, but all my reference points are in feet). It appears he was not auto-pausing, but did stop quite a bit. The time spent moving was 5:49. His pace, excluding the time stopped, was 11:12 min/mi. With the elevation gain, this is most definitely running.

To a decent runner that is nearly walking though. A record road race marathon pace is ~4:45 min miles. A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats, which is only a titch under the 50k of this race. Trail races are slower, and 7000 feet is a decent amount of climbing.. but he was in no danger of setting any land speed record. 15 min miles is not that much faster than walking. So thi…

I'm not a huge runner, but an 11 minute mile over that distance is great. An 8 min/mile marathon run is a highly experienced runner and not just someone slightly above average.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#74

Post by brianwawok »

pc86 wrote: post #67
brianwawok wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a decent runner that is nearly walking though. A record road race marathon pace is ~4:45 min miles. A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats, which is only a titch under the 50k of this race. Trail races are slower, and 7000 feet is a decent amount of climbing.. but he was in no danger of setting any land speed record. 15 min miles is not that much faster than walking. So thi…

> A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats What is it about the running community that makes them say ridiculous things like this? The fastest average marathon pace I could find anywhere was 9m 6s for 20-year old men.[0] To say that it takes only someone "slightly" above average to maintain a pace 12% faster than that for an entire marathon is ridiculous. Just because a lot of p…

That site seems pretty bogus.

Lets pick a real race. Say the 2015 Chicago Marathon.

Let's look at men 30-34

http://results.chicagomarathon.com/2015/?pid=list

3200 people there finished. So let's take middle, #1600: 4:11, which is 9:34 pace.

8 min pace is 3:29, which is something like finish 700 / 3200 in that age group.

So to me, finishing in 700th place out of 3400 people in a race is "slightly above average". But who cares, even the 9:30 pace is far above the 16 minute pace of OP.

Realize too, that many people running a marathon are running their 1 lifetime marathon - they never ever plan to run another. Drop all those out, and you will find 3:30 may be about average or even a tad worse among people who are serious runners.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#76

Post by brianwawok »

zimpenfish wrote: post #51
brianwawok wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a decent runner that is nearly walking though. A record road race marathon pace is ~4:45 min miles. A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats, which is only a titch under the 50k of this race. Trail races are slower, and 7000 feet is a decent amount of climbing.. but he was in no danger of setting any land speed record. 15 min miles is not that much faster than walking. So thi…

> A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats I make that a 3:30 marathon which I would suggest is rather more than "slightly above average" - you'd be in the first 25% male finishers at London 2015, for example.

I consider 25th - 40th percentiles as slightly above average... as many many of those people in your race are running their first and only marathon. Of people who do at least 1 marathon a year, I don't think you will find a 3:30 marathon much past the middlepoint. Not even close to an open BQ time for example.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#78

Post by brianwawok »

runjake wrote: post #49
brianwawok wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a decent runner that is nearly walking though. A record road race marathon pace is ~4:45 min miles. A slightly above average runner can do say 8 min miles over 26.2 miles on flats, which is only a titch under the 50k of this race. Trail races are slower, and 7000 feet is a decent amount of climbing.. but he was in no danger of setting any land speed record. 15 min miles is not that much faster than walking. So thi…

pneumatics corrects me and says his actual moving pace was 11:12 min/mi. This is a pretty good pace, given the terrain, and far beyond speed walking. I've run everything from flat, paved marathons to alpine mountain ultras. The paces are totally different. I'm going to be running a technical ultra a good 3-4 minutes/min slower than I'd run a flat road marathon.

50k in 7:45 is 15 minute mile pace (14 min 58 second to be precise).

I don't know what this moving pace thing is, if you choose to take a 45 minute break that still counts on the clock.

So at best, his 15 minute technical ultra translates into a 11 min mile road race, which is below average.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#79

Post by Amorymeltzer »

kolbe wrote: post #71
pneumatics wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a gnarly run. Almost 7000 ft of climbing (he gives the value in m, but all my reference points are in feet). It appears he was not auto-pausing, but did stop quite a bit. The time spent moving was 5:49. His pace, excluding the time stopped, was 11:12 min/mi. With the elevation gain, this is most definitely running.

For reference on how to normalize the elevation gain, I like to add 1.5 miles for every 1000 feet of elevation gain/loss (combo). So, in the way I plan, I'd look at that 50k like a 41 mile run on flat ground.

I can't comment for running, but for backpacking we would add a mile for every 1000 feet of gain, ignoring loss. So 500 up, 400 down, 500 up feels like an extra mile. You have to look at elevation maps to get the nitty-gritty, but I've found it to be pretty fair.

Re: Running 50km after 82h of fasting

#80

Post by mmaunder »

I've played with ketosis. You can verify your body is in a state of ketosis using "keto sticks" that you pee on. They change color and prove that your body is outputting ketones. That's also what causes your breath to smell like something died (my wife's comment).

One of the leading thinkers on this is Tim Noakes who has written some excellent literature on the subject and is a keen runner. He became famous for "Lore of Running" which is a tome of a book but is an excellent primer for any runner serious about nutrition and metabolic processes.

Noakes has more recently joined the low carb/low GI movement and has some pretty radical thinking in the area.

I would also echo some other commenters here that Ketosis is IMHO not a healthy state and can have quite far reaching health consequences. One of the by products of ketosis is acetone which is what makes your breath smell - so there are some fairly radical changes in your body's chemical functioning as it goes into starvation and survival mode.

I tend to gravitate away from radical experiments like this and more towards what the leading edge professional athletes are doing, minus the steroids. They have plenty of motivation to innovate in the field in a sustainable way.

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