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United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

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Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#71

Post by ryanlol »

Karunamon wrote: post #10
zyxley wrote: post #4

Airlines taking away free snacks for customers feels like companies taking away free snacks for employees: it doesn't really matter much by itself for anyone involved, but it's an obvious signal that the management involved can't bother to even put a fig leaf on the matter of your personal comfort.

"Very many little things" is a great way of describing how bad air travel is. None of the issues are all that bad taken individually, but taken together, the experience is worse than the difference of its parts. * Security (a stressful PITA) * Boarding (never goes smoothly) * Environment (tiny seats, loud, sick passengers, babies, etc) * Service (rude/inattentive FA's, overpriced small extras that feel insulting) * D…

It's worth noting that due to airline loyalty programs frequent flyers tend to have a far superior experience than the guy that only flies a couple of times a year.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#72

Post by ryanlol »

martinald wrote: post #33

What I can't understand is why United (and tbh most airlines) put such ludicriously short connection times in going from international to domestic in the US. I've literally had them quote a 42 min connection at me getting from IAD international to domestic. This is literally impossible unless the flight was very significantly early/they put me on Concorde by mistake. I phoned up when I noticed and asked to change fli…

Next time call the airline to book your flight, they can definitely help you.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#73

Post by joshyeager »

ghaff wrote: post #63
joshyeager wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would definitely pay 50% more for an extra 3" of leg room. Maybe even just 2". Take out one row and you could add that much to 10-12 rows. I must be missing something, because that seems like it would be an effective option. It would increase the flight cost of those seats by 8-12%, and you could charge 20-50% more for them.

You've pretty much described United Economy Plus. I'm not sure it's even typically that much of a premium although I'm not sure as I get it as part of my status.

Thanks! I have never seen that option, although I don't usually fly United. I'll look for it next time.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#74

Post by mtanski »

hellofunk wrote: post #7
zyxley wrote: post #4

Airlines taking away free snacks for customers feels like companies taking away free snacks for employees: it doesn't really matter much by itself for anyone involved, but it's an obvious signal that the management involved can't bother to even put a fig leaf on the matter of your personal comfort.

What is odd is that even the cheapest budget airlines of Asia, and there are many, many of them, nearly all provide not just free snacks, but free hot meals.

The competition is Asian for Airlines is a lot more intense then in North America. Almost every country has a Carier or 2 or 3. They all fly to each other countries so there is a lot of choice. Every country has been expanding its airports for the 20 years. And competition is driving the use of brand new planes and perks.

Now look at North America. There are only 3 countries here. United States airlines are the largest carriers. In the past 20 years consolidation has reduced the number of airlines. That's why despite the huge drop in oily our not seeing ticket prices go down.

In most cities / airports there is one dominating airline and they know chances are you will take their flight.

There's times of the year (not holiday) when it's marginally more expensive for me to to Vietnam for a vacation then to visit my family living in Austin. This is from NYC.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#75

Post by ghaff »

rconti wrote: post #66
ghaff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A typical domestic flight has very few upgrade seats (e.g. on a 757). As one of those "frequent flier" business travelers on United (Gold--50K mile/yr status), I hardly ever get upgraded. >would 'only' cost them 33% of seat capacity So, on today's planes, they'd have to increase fares accordingly given that utilization on most flights is pretty high. I get your point. But the market dynamics are more or less "lowest…

Right, I am more than willing to pay a premium price for a better service, but we're talking 50%, not 500%. I believe the price they're trying to charge is simply an order of magnitude out of whack with reality. I suspect there are 2 factors at play here. For one, serving the lowest common denominator and competing on price is easier. It's easier to create metrics around, and by handling volume, it's easier to fill p…

>It would be harder to provide a premium service airline with all more-expensive seats

It's been tried and, by and large, it doesn't work because too many people just buy on price. There are some minor exceptions--e.g. British Airways all-business London City to New York route but that's obviously a pretty special case.

Economy Plus is just more legroom. It may include priority boarding as well. I believe it primarily exists as a perk for frequent flyers (which I am). I've been told that, otherwise, you may not be able to book it until some number of days before your flight.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#76

Post by ghaff »

ryanlol wrote: post #71
Karunamon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Very many little things" is a great way of describing how bad air travel is. None of the issues are all that bad taken individually, but taken together, the experience is worse than the difference of its parts. * Security (a stressful PITA) * Boarding (never goes smoothly) * Environment (tiny seats, loud, sick passengers, babies, etc) * Service (rude/inattentive FA's, overpriced small extras that feel insulting) * D…

It's worth noting that due to airline loyalty programs frequent flyers tend to have a far superior experience than the guy that only flies a couple of times a year.

It's not really "far superior" unless you have such high status that you always get upgraded--which is going to require something in the 100K+ miles/range. Airline Clubs and TSA Pre also help although those aren't directly related to frequent flyer status. There are some benefits to mid-tier status (e.g. Economy Plus on United) but you're still pretty much just flying coach and have all the same issues related to flight delays etc. as everyone else does.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#77

Post by GVIrish »

ghaff wrote: post #53
pcurve wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown on couple dozen airlines. Yes, Asian carriers are almost always better in terms of food. I was actually served medium cooked steak on Asiana. But the real difference is in their cabin attendants. x10 better. But what I hate flying about isn't the food or CA service. It's flying into and out of JFK. Everyone working there is f'king miserable. They treat people like live stocks. And their customs and immigra…

>But the real difference is in their cabin attendants. x10 better. At least some of which is for reasons that, properly, wouldn't fly in the US. They hire young, attractive, college-educated women who are enjoying flying the world for a few years before they settle down and get married. And who are not expected to stay on once they've enjoyed those few years.

I'm sure that's some of it, but I suspect the bigger factor is that some of the other international carriers put a bigger emphasis on customer service. I don't thing being young, college-educated, or female matters nearly as much as working for an organization that prides itself on customer service.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#78

Post by pcurve »

ghaff wrote: post #53
pcurve wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown on couple dozen airlines. Yes, Asian carriers are almost always better in terms of food. I was actually served medium cooked steak on Asiana. But the real difference is in their cabin attendants. x10 better. But what I hate flying about isn't the food or CA service. It's flying into and out of JFK. Everyone working there is f'king miserable. They treat people like live stocks. And their customs and immigra…

>But the real difference is in their cabin attendants. x10 better. At least some of which is for reasons that, properly, wouldn't fly in the US. They hire young, attractive, college-educated women who are enjoying flying the world for a few years before they settle down and get married. And who are not expected to stay on once they've enjoyed those few years.

Doesn't hurt, but as per below comment, they are just much better trained to provide attentive and friendly service.

When I was waiting at impeccably maintained Osaka Kansai airport, I saw a flight attendant pickup small gum wrapper on floor that somebody else left behind. It's completely different mentality.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#79

Post by sveiss »

leesalminen wrote: post #2

I had a decent experience with United over the holidays. Only $99 to upgrade to first class from DEN - LGA.

This is actually one of the things (some of) United's frequent flyers complain about -- very cheap day-of-travel upgrades which prevent complimentary upgrades for their most loyal/highest spending customers from clearing.

Re: United Airlines' Quest to Be Less Awful

#80

Post by geff82 »

I think not providing meals/refreshments on any flight longer than 30min is just wrong. Why? Of course on could argue that if you "pay less you get less" or that meals are not needed on short flights. But the true story is that often times, the actual time in flight is not the only time you wait. You stand in line at the TSA, you run through giant gangways, you are sitting in a plane that gets late an hour or more. Which all means: by the time you finally are in the air, many people need some rest and energy. Not providing at least some food/drinks for free thus is absolutely unacceptable to me.

Recently flew Frankfurt=>Detroit=>Dallas (2 flights). I was lucky they provided 2 meals on the long first flight, as on the second leg they only gave a coke. Including the waiting time and the time after the last meal on board, we had 5 hours without food.

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