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Google Fired Me

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Re: Google Fired Me

#71

Post by DrScump »

totalrobe wrote: post #21
fearface wrote: post #10

15 years ago, freshly employed, less than 25 years old, introverted and socially awkward, I had a work colleague as well to which I wrote a romantic poem (for her, more or less out of the blue). It wasn't received well. Not well at all. I had trouble understanding her dismissal and insisted on that she gave me signs of affection. HR was involved briefly, my story sounded so similar to what OP writes. But in my case,…

This is why you should party or at least socialize widely in college. To get all that weird socially awkward shit over with before you're in the workplace and it impacts yours or another's career.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I kinda read that as "sexual harassment in college doesn't count".

Re: Google Fired Me

#72

Post by DrScump »

hoopism wrote: post #24

I can't help but look at it from the other person's perspective. They went to HR and were clearly upset/disturbed. HR then told this guy clearly to avoid contact at work. The guy then ignores this order and confronts the person. I can only imagine the confronted person would say anything to avoid this author. Basically the author approached them (when told not to) and said "Hey, I am gunna get fired cus of you!". Who…

  Who wouldn't just say whatever to get out of the conversation?
This.

I had the exact same thought upon first read.

Re: Google Fired Me

#73

Post by mercer »

DrScump wrote: post #71
totalrobe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you should party or at least socialize widely in college. To get all that weird socially awkward shit over with before you're in the workplace and it impacts yours or another's career.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I kinda read that as "sexual harassment in college doesn't count".

I assumed that 'within the boundaries of acceptable human behavior' was an implicit assumption, but I've actually heard an uncomfortably large amount of people defend unacceptable behavior as 'college acceptable'. So perhaps you're not too cynical. I've been described more than once as too naïve :).

Re: Google Fired Me

#74

Post by fearface »

hwstar wrote: post #53
osullivj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember your employment rights. Or, if you're in the US, remember you have almost no employment rights.

It would be interesting to see how this would be handled in the European Union. It's almost certain that it would have been more work for the HR department than in the US.

I work in a central European country and had a similar issue (see my comment above) where I was the culprit. HR told me they we're approached by my colleague and I should avoid her und stick to the code of conduct. I think my job was not on the line, which prevented me from the moronic defense mode that OP engaged into.

Re: Google Fired Me

#75

Post by iofj »

hwstar wrote: post #54
engi_nerd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "Performance Improvement Plans" are also the kiss of death. When it looks like you're about to be placed under one, fairly or not, you should attempt to find other employment ASAP.

Or as soon as you are asked to sign a PIP the relationship has soured and you should be looking for a new job, or if you have FU money, resign.

You can, and of course, should, refuse to sign any document detailing additional job requirements. If you are presented with a PIP you should fold the paper, put it in your pocket, and inform the other party that said paper will be used in legal action should it become necessary, and that you will not accept any changes or additional requirements to the job function that are not mutually agreed upon, that you will not be threatened into signing any document that states otherwise. Then you should ask if there's anything to talk about. If the manager then proceeds to go to HR, they will be very nervous about taking action against you, as you've shown that you may resort to legal action against the company, and the manager has just given you a piece of documentation that generally hasn't been reviewed by HR/legal beforehand.

The thing is, a court could easily find such a document constitutes coercion, or if poorly worded ("you will no longer have access to ...", or, God help an employer who does this, "your pay/pension/hours/... will be reduced by xxx" for instance) can be constituted as breach of contract, an attempt to force someone to quit (or worse: an attempt to force you to do something unrelated to your work), or ...

Keep in mind that employers aren't generally all that likely to win labor cases. There's even a legal principle here, in case of doubt, the weakest party is considered in the right, which is the employee. There is no burder of proof, only "begin of proof" (you must show something that a reasonable person would interpret as indicating that what you say is true, the paper they gave you to sign would definitely be considered unassailable, even if it's easy to fake).

And there's another factor : penalties for being in the wrong as an employer are gigantic (damages for wrongful termination can be 2 years pay, with no obligation in return, in other words, payable within 14 days and you free to get another job even before that).

Penalties for being in the wrong as a worker are generally that nothing happens (you're not even fired, and you can't be fired because of the legal action. As you can imagine, the legal system reacts very, very strongly to attempts to circumvent the legal system or punish using the legal system).

Legal costs for using labor courts are generally reduced or waived entirely, and unions may provide labor lawyers as a service, for free.

Of course, IANAL, and you should get legal advice, frankly, before you're put in this situation. Almost any legal firm will give you a 30-minute or so exploratory meeting with a lawyer for free where you can ask questions.

Re: Google Fired Me

#76

Post by DanBC »

hwstar wrote: post #53
osullivj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember your employment rights. Or, if you're in the US, remember you have almost no employment rights.

It would be interesting to see how this would be handled in the European Union. It's almost certain that it would have been more work for the HR department than in the US.

European companies have a duty of care to protect their employees from harm. This harm could be harassment or bullying from other employees. So most companies will have a policy against bullying and harassment. If someone else makes a complaint against you that complaint should be investigated; you'll be spoken to; mediation might be attempted; "guidance" will be given.

If you ignore the guidance they'll start issuing warnings. Those warnings are kept on file to help with potential employment tribunal cases.

In the UK: after two verbal warnings and one written warning you'll be fired. Or sooner, if your behavior meets the gross professional misconduct level. (You punch someone, for example.)

Re: Google Fired Me

#77

Post by DanBC »

anon4 wrote: post #52
cm2187 wrote: post #3

It's hard to form an opinion without knowing what is "this thing" the author has done, unless I missed the part where he describes it. If he acknowledged to a colleague of having killed someone, the context is pretty different from a minor violation of an internal policy.

Correction: it's a thing that she thought he had done based on hearsay from other coworkers, but which he hadn't actually done. Could have been "Hey, so-and-so told me you have a great rack when we were both wasted at the bar", used as a flirty opening by a coworker, but one which backfired spectacularly.

You keep saying "she". Where are you getting "she" from?

Re: Google Fired Me

#78

Post by amyjess »

exodust wrote: post #47
engi_nerd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "Performance Improvement Plans" are also the kiss of death. When it looks like you're about to be placed under one, fairly or not, you should attempt to find other employment ASAP.

"Performance" can be seen as your ability to play ball with bullshit things and people at work. Outdated inefficient systems you're expected to use instead of building something new, for example. So you apply some resistance, apply initiative, and get smacked down for your efforts. Or when you're supposed to work with someone who is an expert at sticky note presentations or motivational bullshit-speak, but literally…

> "Performance" can be seen as your ability to play ball with bullshit things and people at work.

Bingo. At my last job, my boss placed me on a PIP largely as retaliation against me over office politics.

I started looking for a new job that day, and I accepted the first offer I took just to get out of there before they could fire me.

Re: Google Fired Me

#79

Post by exodust »

grogenaut wrote: post #65
exodust wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Performance" can be seen as your ability to play ball with bullshit things and people at work. Outdated inefficient systems you're expected to use instead of building something new, for example. So you apply some resistance, apply initiative, and get smacked down for your efforts. Or when you're supposed to work with someone who is an expert at sticky note presentations or motivational bullshit-speak, but literally…

Why do you want to stay if this signals stuff you don't like?

Same reason you sometimes want to stay in a relationship but at the same time get the hell away. There are good and not so good things about any job/relationship.

Re: Google Fired Me

#80

Post by grogenaut »

hwstar wrote: post #70
grogenaut wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or as Homer says "Just go in and do a really half assed job". You're already on PIP, you could likely do 0 work for the duration of the PIP while you look for other jobs and switch.

The problem with that is that it leaves a record of the bad performance which can be accessed through the HR back channel. Better to quit while you are ahead.

I think if you're already on PIP you'd have this problem anyway.
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