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How bad are things?

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Re: How bad are things?

#71

Post by uptownJimmy »

This is well-written, and seems to touch on some vital part of our current cultural dilemma: when we finally manage to make freedom and relative prosperity available to almost everybody, how do we then handle that freedom and prosperity? How do we manage our time, when so much of it is our own, as compared to most people who came before us? What choices do we make, every day of our lives?

I'm no psychiatrist, but I see bad choices and unhappiness every day. I barely escaped that fate, myself, and it's an ongoing struggle, of course.

I always thought the admonition should have been rephrased: "With great freedom comes great responsibility." But that seems laughable in a world where so many people seem like confused children locked in a vicious cycle of desire and cheap gratification.

Re: How bad are things?

#72

Post by reitanqild »

littletimmy wrote: post #69
reitanqild wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christianity. It got me a head start[0] and I think I was lucky to start with friends who explained that forgiveness is just the start and that I was supposed to be living a new life. That said, like other believers here I don't usually mention it as it can effectively derail discussions. [0] I'd tried for a 2/3 years before admitting I couldn't do this on my own, -I was so impulsive I didn't recognize I was doing so…

Is it easy to go back to believing once you not are non-religious? I've only seen it going one way, and I find it really hard to go back to religion even if I want to (because of the whole "it's irrational" aspect, sincerely no offense meant). How did you do it?

>sincerely no offense meant

Thanks!

Guess it depends.

Once you see it working it is hard not to.

As for the irrational part, my take is that once I believe in a almighty / close-to-almigthy God (close-to because of the free will part) everything falls in place. I don't argue about creationism or not etc, I accept science as very useful models and don't make a fuzz of it, I actually don't even think about because it is counterproductive and any decent almighty God could do it whatever way.

Anyway, why would you want to go back?

Re: How bad are things?

#73

Post by FussyZeus »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #45
FussyZeus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a hardcore capitalist and would've launched into a rant at this kind of a post. I do disagree in a minor way though: I think Capitalism is fine and dandy, I think we've just gotten entirely too good at the emotional manipulative style of marketing products. Awhile back I started reading a lot about what goes into the creation of a mainstream big brand product and it's fucking horrifying. Food for example…

While I don't necessarily disagree I have to point out that TFA isn't talking about the malaise of wanting more to consume. It's talking about much larger issues: people who are schizophrenic, or victims if physical abuse, or rape. I don't see any marketers out there enticing more people into the arms of schizophrenia, food stamps, or prison sentences.

True enough, I got a little on a side tangent here. To be honest though I think this is a little more sad, only because no matter how good as a society we become we'll always have rapists and whatnot, but we've created an entire demographic group of people who can't stop consuming as a compulsion, who otherwise were it not for excessive exposure to marketing messages they don't understand, would just be (plus or minus) "normal" people.

Re: How bad are things?

#75

Post by FussyZeus »

littletimmy wrote: post #70
FussyZeus wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be a hardcore capitalist and would've launched into a rant at this kind of a post. I do disagree in a minor way though: I think Capitalism is fine and dandy, I think we've just gotten entirely too good at the emotional manipulative style of marketing products. Awhile back I started reading a lot about what goes into the creation of a mainstream big brand product and it's fucking horrifying. Food for example…

How is unprocessed food engineered to make you want more? You mean if I buy chicken from a local grocer, it's corrupted?

Look at chickens from the 1920's and compare them to what we have now. I don't know if "corrupted" is the right word for it, but it has a shitload more salt (which your body naturally craves) not to mention it's much larger and fatter.

Re: How bad are things?

#76

Post by isolate »

FussyZeus wrote: post #75
littletimmy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is unprocessed food engineered to make you want more? You mean if I buy chicken from a local grocer, it's corrupted?

Look at chickens from the 1920's and compare them to what we have now. I don't know if "corrupted" is the right word for it, but it has a shitload more salt (which your body naturally craves) not to mention it's much larger and fatter.

Where can I look at chickens from the 1920's?

Re: How bad are things?

#77

Post by m_fayer »

arjie wrote: post #44
onetwotree wrote: post #6

I'm an addict in long term recovery, and I hang out with lots of addicts trying to get or stay clean. Obviously this crowd has problems! But what's interesting is that as I've been making friends who aren't addicts, they have problems that are every bit as messed up as the recovery crowd. There are two main differences, though: "normal" people are much more committed to hiding their problems (I feel as though I only…

What are some examples of problems normal people have that are as bad as the ones addicts are having? I promise I am asking this question in good faith.

Jumping from one relationship to another with barely any time (if any at all) in between, each relationship failing the same way as the last and doing ever more damage, convinced the next one will work even though no fundamental changes were made. I've seen this a lot.

Re: How bad are things?

#78

Post by littletimmy »

reitanqild wrote: post #72
littletimmy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it easy to go back to believing once you not are non-religious? I've only seen it going one way, and I find it really hard to go back to religion even if I want to (because of the whole "it's irrational" aspect, sincerely no offense meant). How did you do it?

>sincerely no offense meant Thanks! Guess it depends. Once you see it working it is hard not to. As for the irrational part, my take is that once I believe in a almighty / close-to-almigthy God (close-to because of the free will part) everything falls in place. I don't argue about creationism or not etc, I accept science as very useful models and don't make a fuzz of it, I actually don't even think about because it i…

I was happier when I was religious. That's the main reason I've considered going back to it. Couldn't do it :(

Re: How bad are things?

#79

Post by effie »

p4wnc6 wrote: post #20
onetwotree wrote: post #6

I'm an addict in long term recovery, and I hang out with lots of addicts trying to get or stay clean. Obviously this crowd has problems! But what's interesting is that as I've been making friends who aren't addicts, they have problems that are every bit as messed up as the recovery crowd. There are two main differences, though: "normal" people are much more committed to hiding their problems (I feel as though I only…

I don't mean any offense when I say this, but I kind of resent this type of perspective. I can't say for sure but I suspect if we knew each other, I would fall into the "non-addict friend with problems" type category. You do correctly point out that a lot of people worry whether they will be judged for revealing a problem. This has happened to me and my family quite severely. Long-term, deeply close friends have aban…

"reject desire and attachment" sounds nice on a poster, but that's just so thoroughly not human that I don't even know where to begin, let alone that it too has almost nothing to do with anyone's extrinsic circumstances.

Exactly. I remember reading a book by a couple painting a pretty picture about how freeing oneself from all desire (material, emotional) solves all the problems you may have. I got fallen in to this cheap advice back when I was suffering from unreturned love and tried to preach it as well, but retrospectively, it didn't actually work. It is only the passage of time and other events of life that may result in something like decrease of pain and moving on with life. But I guess this kind of advice (freeing oneself from desire, embracing religion) still has some value in the worst cases where the person is willing to believe anything just to stop the suffering. It gives an illusion of a solution and that helps a little bit.

Re: How bad are things?

#80

Post by krick »

Wow, that's powerful. What I was left thinking the most: so how do I go about coming out of the "bubble"? How do I come to see what "normal people" are?
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