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The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

theguardian.com

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Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#71

Post by spacecowboy_lon »

littletimmy wrote: post #61
tequila_shot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my belief. It was worse when Congress was in power. Now that Modi is in power, I'm hopeful India's state would improve. But this goes without saying, I don't really know. No one really knows. Modi has committed a lot of atrocities during his term as a CM for Gujarath. The only feeling that sticks with me is, fear/uncertainty of future. Still not sure why I'm being down voted. I did provide some reasoning as t…

As someone who doesn't know a lot about Indian politics, could you please tell me why there seems to be a large liberal crowd in India that's very anti-Modi? I heard recently Arundhati Roy returned her government honors, for example.

BJP is a very nataionalist party that has been accused (with some pretty strong evidence) of siring up sectarian violence.

And this is major riots with large numbers of deaths not just descrimination.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#72

Post by marcosdumay »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #48
tsycho wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lottery would make it even easier to game/cheat. Corruption needs to be rooted out from the top with a transparent vigilance process, just changing the system would just shuffle who gets the bribe money.

How do you think real lotteries work? Everybody has incentive to pocket the money but that is prevented.

> How do you think real lotteries work?

In India or in the US?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#73

Post by hbharadwaj »

littletimmy wrote: post #61
tequila_shot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my belief. It was worse when Congress was in power. Now that Modi is in power, I'm hopeful India's state would improve. But this goes without saying, I don't really know. No one really knows. Modi has committed a lot of atrocities during his term as a CM for Gujarath. The only feeling that sticks with me is, fear/uncertainty of future. Still not sure why I'm being down voted. I did provide some reasoning as t…

As someone who doesn't know a lot about Indian politics, could you please tell me why there seems to be a large liberal crowd in India that's very anti-Modi? I heard recently Arundhati Roy returned her government honors, for example.

BJP is a right wing "Hindu" party with close ties to nationalist organizations like Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, Vishwa Hindu Parishad and Shiv Sena. They have had a rather sordid history in the last couple of decades wrt religious violence - Gujarat Riots, Babri Masjid demolition etc.,

Recently, there have been some incidents which have resulted in communal/religious tensions flaring up

1. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/india-divided-after-hindu-mob-lynch...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._M._Kalburgi

India's intellectuals have started criticizing the Government for not speaking out against this violence. In fact, some BJP affiliated people have made some really controversial statements with regards to Muslims in India. Arundhati Roy is among a host of people who are returning their awards in protest of the Government's stance.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#74

Post by roddux »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40
nl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered not speeding? It also helps avoid the fines.

I was going to say that too, but in corrupt countries, you'll get fined for speeding whether you were speeding or not - and expected to bribe the 'officer' regardless. It's not paying a policeman something then and there that's the problem - for you it'd become the fine for speeding - but it's having to pay without having done anything wrong. It's the power abuse associated with it that's wrong.

This happened to me in Vietnam. A police officer pulled over me and a friend as we rode past, then came up with a story about us having 'incorrect papers'. Later found out from the owner of the hostel that the same thing had happened to most of his guests for the entire season!

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#75

Post by balazsdavid987 »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #30

> Nothing else matters – not your grades over 12 years of school, nor any hobbies, interests or transformative life experiences. Good. The US habit of putting bullshit criteria in the admission score is just a way to subjectively select the desired candidates regardless of their merit. And there's no objective way to grade essays, extracurricular activities, obligatory volunteering, interviews, teacher recommendation…

You sound a bit harsh, but as someone not from the US, I was surprised that these things count when it comes to getting an admission. Does any particular hobby makes someone a better person? Or a 20-year old without a transformative life experience isn't capable of achiveing the same things? These factors are way to subjective.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#76

Post by saint_fiasco »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #48
tsycho wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lottery would make it even easier to game/cheat. Corruption needs to be rooted out from the top with a transparent vigilance process, just changing the system would just shuffle who gets the bribe money.

How do you think real lotteries work? Everybody has incentive to pocket the money but that is prevented.

Maybe real lotteries don't work in India. How could you tell?

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#77

Post by nl »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40
nl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered not speeding? It also helps avoid the fines.

I was going to say that too, but in corrupt countries, you'll get fined for speeding whether you were speeding or not - and expected to bribe the 'officer' regardless. It's not paying a policeman something then and there that's the problem - for you it'd become the fine for speeding - but it's having to pay without having done anything wrong. It's the power abuse associated with it that's wrong.

True. But fortunately from that point of view the OP now appears to be in Canada.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#78

Post by jeremyjh »

Rainymood wrote: post #64
rdtsc wrote: post #14

It is hard for those in Western countries to imagine what it is like to live in a corrupt state like that. Eastern Europe is like that as well. Corruption is a way of life. It starts from bribing the doctor who will deliver the baby, to bribing kindergarten teachers, to high school teachers, paying to cheat on a state exam, buying a driver's license etc, until bribing the cemetery to take make an extra spot for the d…

This is one of the reasons top politicians are paid so well. We can complain about their salary all day long but they make important decisions and a higher salary directly impacts the effectiveness of a bribe.

The problem is not corrupt politicians - they are for sale everywhere. The problem is acceptance of corrupt bureaucrats.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#79

Post by amag »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #67
Rainymood wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons top politicians are paid so well. We can complain about their salary all day long but they make important decisions and a higher salary directly impacts the effectiveness of a bribe.

This is exactly what i always thought. Many people always think that lower wages for politicians will solve anything ( because they are mostly jealous) I don't think it does

I lived in Thailand when the now deposed Thaksin Shinawatras party Thai Rak Thai won the election in 2001. I remember many Thais saying he was the ideal PM because he was the richest man in Thailand and because he was the richest man, he would never be corrupted. Fast-forward five years and the military deposed him because of his corrupt politics.

As long as you have a salary you can support yourself and your family on, I don't think higher salary == less corruption. Au contraire, I believe that once you have a sufficiently high income/wealth it's very easy to start to disassociate with the "people" with an average (or lower) income/wealth. That disassociation can then easily lead to moral superiority, that you are above the law/morals of the common man.

Re: The mystery of India’s deadly exam scam

#80

Post by saint_fiasco »

balazsdavid987 wrote: post #75
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #30

> Nothing else matters – not your grades over 12 years of school, nor any hobbies, interests or transformative life experiences. Good. The US habit of putting bullshit criteria in the admission score is just a way to subjectively select the desired candidates regardless of their merit. And there's no objective way to grade essays, extracurricular activities, obligatory volunteering, interviews, teacher recommendation…

You sound a bit harsh, but as someone not from the US, I was surprised that these things count when it comes to getting an admission. Does any particular hobby makes someone a better person? Or a 20-year old without a transformative life experience isn't capable of achiveing the same things? These factors are way to subjective.

My guess is that the US used to have objective criteria but because University admissions are so competitive everyone studied just for the test and Universities filled with people who were very good at "book-learning" at the expense of everything else.

They wanted students to be more varied, more well-rounded individuals instead of robots who memorize books. So naturally, they started testing for holistic well-roundedness and Goodhart's law did the rest.

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