Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse • Hacker News Board

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#71

Post by skrebbel » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 8:22 AM UTC

Lazare wrote: post #38

fiatjaf wrote: post #32

Why not CouchDB + PouchDB? It's offline first and replicates over HTTP. For more fine-grained permissions and other features I'm also developing a small Go database compatible with PouchDB at https://github.com/fiatjaf/summadb I hope it will be able to sync through websockets soon.

I find it an ongoing mystery how many of these tools and services pop up that aren't based on Couch/PouchDB, don't reference Couch/PouchDB, aren't compatible with the Couch sync protocol, and don't even seem aware the Couch/PouchDB exist. I'm 100% waiting to be sold on "here's a new tool that does what CouchDB does, but is better in these specific ways", but if your sales pitch is just "we're working on writing an ex…

As a Firebase customer and former CouchDB user, I can tell you that the use cases are really not as similar as you apparently think they are.

Until very recently, Couch/Pouch would only sync entire databases, and recommended a "One database per user" approach. This is improving now, but it's still very coarse-grained. Last time I checked, anything that has data that you couldn't shard easily is basically unfit for Couch/Pouch - e.g. any messaging app or a Twitter clone. How would you select which data goes to which user? Or do you just want to put all tweets, globally, on everybody's phone?

All of this is absolutely peanuts on Firebase.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#72

Post by brodo » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 8:42 AM UTC

This isn't really a complete replacement for Parse or Firebase as far as I can see. Apache Usergrid and Baasbox both provide more of the features that Firebase and Parse provide.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#73

Post by reitoei » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 9:25 AM UTC

cmsthrowit wrote: post #15

d0m wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many industries (I.e. healthcare with HIPAA) you can't save your data in Firebase/Parse.

Parse is HIPAA certified.

It is not.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#74

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 9:29 AM UTC

0k1n wrote: post #70

Raed667 wrote: post #11

Looks impressive, but as a Parse user I think that the selling point are the open-sourced SDKs for lots of platforms. EDIT: this seems to be lacking a graphical administration panel as well.

https://github.com/Kinto/kinto-admin

[deleted]

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#75

Post by rhizome31 » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:12 AM UTC

simple10 wrote: post #2

From the Dockerfile [1], it looks like it's built on top of postgres. I'm excited to see if anyone uses Kinto for more than a weekend project. [1] https://github.com/Kinto/kinto/blob/master/Dockerfile

From the Overview page: At Mozilla, Kinto is used in Firefox and Firefox OS for global synchronization of settings and assets, as well as a first-class solution for personal data in browser extensions and Web apps.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#76

Post by estefan » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:17 AM UTC

If the parse web site wasn't such useless shit I might actually be able to work out whether this really is a good alternative... :-(

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#77

Post by mikaelmorvan » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:37 AM UTC

sktrdie wrote: post #33

Does anybody know about databases that talk WebSockets rather than HTTP? For frontend apps it seems more logical to use WebSockets. Dealing with AJAX and understanding how to manage all of that on the client is still a huge dilemma in the React/Flux/Angular community.

Hi, at zetapush (http://zetapush.com), we provide a realtime BaaS with database, file storage, search engine, ... everything with a websocket connection. You can use our javascript SDK to connect to our clusters.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#78

Post by david-given » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:41 AM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #71

Lazare wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it an ongoing mystery how many of these tools and services pop up that aren't based on Couch/PouchDB, don't reference Couch/PouchDB, aren't compatible with the Couch sync protocol, and don't even seem aware the Couch/PouchDB exist. I'm 100% waiting to be sold on "here's a new tool that does what CouchDB does, but is better in these specific ways", but if your sales pitch is just "we're working on writing an ex…

As a Firebase customer and former CouchDB user, I can tell you that the use cases are really not as similar as you apparently think they are. Until very recently, Couch/Pouch would only sync entire databases, and recommended a "One database per user" approach. This is improving now, but it's still very coarse-grained. Last time I checked, anything that has data that you couldn't shard easily is basically unfit for Co…

Personally, I'm looking for a database with:

- strong consistency (cross-node transactions!)

- strong access controls (don't want clients to see data they're not allowed to!)

- the ability to seamlessly replicate a view from the server to a web client without me having to think about it (although only read-only)

So far none of the web nosql databases I've looked at support these. Strong consistency seems to be unfashionable, presumably because it's hard to shard. I was really surprised to discover that CouchDB apparently doesn't support access controls, though --- if a client has access to the database endpoint, it can see everything. Aren't access controls part of the core competency of a multi-user database?

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#79

Post by onion2k » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:49 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #42

jondubois wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of this (assuming this is even true), I can't imagine that a finance company would want to store their data inside something like Firebase - The risk of data theft is too high and the value of the data is also too high. When you store everything in a big centralized system, the risk of that data being compromised increases greatly. Right now, the reason why no one is hacking Firebase is because the data wh…

> hospitals started storing data in Firebase Is health data actually worth that much to hackers? Genuine question.

There are other forms of value besides money; in terms of social value and reputation, a hack that steals a large quantity of data about people is worth a great deal to the hacker.

Re: Kinto – open-source alternative to Firebase and Parse

#80

Post by ametaireau » Tue, Dec 15, 2015, 10:58 AM UTC

daleharvey wrote: post #41

Lazare wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it an ongoing mystery how many of these tools and services pop up that aren't based on Couch/PouchDB, don't reference Couch/PouchDB, aren't compatible with the Couch sync protocol, and don't even seem aware the Couch/PouchDB exist. I'm 100% waiting to be sold on "here's a new tool that does what CouchDB does, but is better in these specific ways", but if your sales pitch is just "we're working on writing an ex…

I am a little confused at why PouchDB isnt listed on the comparisons page, I am fairly certain they sent a comparison listing and asked me to review it at some point but in all fairness they did investigate and give reasons to not use PouchDB, this post is linked http://www.servicedenuages.fr/en/generic-storage-ecosystem In my extremely biased position (as the maintainer of PouchDB) I would really have liked to still…

The comparison with Couch and other solutions actually exists in our documentation: check out http://kinto.readthedocs.org/en/latest/overview.html#compari...