Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Yale Problem Begins in High School

heterodoxacademy.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 526 posts

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#71

Post by jegutman »

sremani wrote: post #26
rspeer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is not speech, it's money. People were angry at Eich because he spent money opposing a cause they supported. Brandon Eich is not an example of anything this article is about. It's much more straightforward: if you do things people don't like, those people won't like you.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's polit…

"I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority."

It's interestingly how strong your opinion is when it could be easily improved upon by just reading wikipedia[3]. Here are states that actually passed SSM by popular referendum:

* Maine [1]

* Washington State[2]

* Maryland

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Question_1,_2012 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Referendum_74 [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_Question_6 [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_Unite...

I also disagree with how the Brendon Eich was handled and it's important to have a diversity of views within an organization. Ultimately I think if Eich had been a stronger leader he would have been able to move past the incident, but there were already issues of confidence in his leadership BEFORE the incident happened.[5]

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich#Mozilla

"On March 24, 2014, Eich was promoted to CEO of Mozilla Corporation. Gary Kovacs, John Lilly and Ellen Siminoff resigned from the Mozilla board after the appointment, some expressing disagreements with Eich's strategy and their desire for a CEO with experience in the mobile industry."

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#72

Post by ta0o0o0 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #14
tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

Yes, of course Eich's critics had the right to criticize him. The point is that calling for his resignation was grossly disproportionate.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#73

Post by lexcorvus »

kelukelugames wrote: post #40
jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

They want to censor what might be called secular heresy—anything that questions the reigning "mainstream" (progressive) orthodoxy.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#75

Post by at-fates-hands »

The one thing that perplexes me more than anything is nobody ever thought free speech allows us to monitor the people who have radical ideologies and ideas that threaten our country. When you silence opposition simply because it offends somebody or some group, you lose the opportunity to monitor these people and their ideas.

I want to know if there's skinheads who want to start a race war or the black panther party leader who advocates violence against non-whites. Sure it's offensive to me, but I want to KNOW these people are out there and know what they're thinking.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#76

Post by richard_mcp »

derptron wrote: post #56
richard_mcp wrote: post #45

I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff until I saw the author was Jonathan Haidt. I had the honor to take Psyc 101 with Prof. Haidt years ago at the University of Virginia. He was a wonderful teacher who expected the best out of his students. He struck me as a very intelligent man who had put a lot of thought into both what he taught as well as his opinions. When he br…

"I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff" What?

Normally if I read an article about the men's right movement, it ends up being slightly malicious or dismissive of other movements like feminism. I don't disagree with a lot of their points, but there often seems to be a thread of misogyny just under the surface which makes me less likely to take them seriously.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#77

Post by Cthulhu_ »

derptron wrote: post #56
richard_mcp wrote: post #45

I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff until I saw the author was Jonathan Haidt. I had the honor to take Psyc 101 with Prof. Haidt years ago at the University of Virginia. He was a wonderful teacher who expected the best out of his students. He struck me as a very intelligent man who had put a lot of thought into both what he taught as well as his opinions. When he br…

"I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff" What?

That exact quote is part of the current problem - dismissal of a serious and concerning issue. Nowadays you'd never see someone going "I was originally going to lump this article in with other "black people's rights movement" stuff", except maybe on the more extremist parts of the internet.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#78

Post by dragonwriter »

nickff wrote: post #42
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

Would you then also argue that the Hollywood blacklist was morally unassailable?[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

I didn't argue that anything was morally unassailable.

That freedom of speech includes freedom of speech criticizing others' speech acts does not mean that all speech is morally equal.

Nor, in any case, was the Hollywood blacklist a speech act; it was a conspiracy in restraint of trade.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#80

Post by detaro »

zekkius wrote: post #11

I find the underlying premise of this article and the claim that there is a "war on boys" absurd. It's a old argument from the same old set of people who have the same old intolerant (and dying) paradigm. Not sure why it is on HN at all as the content has nothing to do with tech...

So what's your explanation for the events described?
Post reply on HN