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Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

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Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#71
post #8
post #6

With (at least currently) the worst security model of them all. Yay!

Care to elaborate ?

Two major things:

X11, although at least Xorg doesn't run as root in modern distros any more. Wayland is the replacement but isn't there yet.

Linus hates security people and refuses patches that improve security within the Linux kernel. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/business/2015/11/05/net-of-...

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#72
post #57

Unfortunately, no. I use Linux on a daily basis on my desktop, and while it's great for development (if you develop for Linux), it sucks for everything else (compared to Windows, for example). > Linux is now a viable gaming platform, thanks in large part to the efforts of Valve and GOG.com. Six of the top ten games on Steam right now support Linux. No. Look at the most recent SteamOS/PC review from Ars: http://arstec…

Linux has all the reasons to be the fastest gaming platform: something slow in the kernel slowing your game down? Submit a patch. Yet it isn't. It's absurd. The OSS framework has worked so well for almost every other facet, it's crazy that it hasn't worked for the kernel for games. Especially game developers: those are the guys you want when performance really matters. Gaming (and very slightly Visual Studio) is the…

Unlike other hardware, graphic cards don't have open specifications, so the only way third parties can write drivers is through reverse engineering, that's a big handicap.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#73
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux has all the reasons to be the fastest gaming platform: something slow in the kernel slowing your game down? Submit a patch. Yet it isn't. It's absurd. The OSS framework has worked so well for almost every other facet, it's crazy that it hasn't worked for the kernel for games. Especially game developers: those are the guys you want when performance really matters. Gaming (and very slightly Visual Studio) is the…

Unlike other hardware, graphic cards don't have open specifications, so the only way third parties can write drivers is through reverse engineering, that's a big handicap.

The ISA's are more or less open AMD's are available for download, to get the ISA from NVIDIA you need to register and get a rubber stamped NDA.

But still there isn't any one capable of writing a modern GPU kernel driver and a shader compiler for GPU's. The driver is doing a billion and a half optimizations, and fixes tons of errors that were left in the code during development at this point most AAA developers say "fuck it" let NVIDIA/AMD handle the performance and that's the best case, there have been cases where AAA titles were shipped with code that can't even initialize the display driver properly and it had to be fixed in the driver.

Both AMD and NVIDIA pretty much keep their compiler and driver locked tight as a trade secret because it sort of is, the driver is what gives them to competitive edge and not in a million years would an FOSS team would be able to keep up with the release cycle for new games and new hardware.

And for people that say well Vulcan will fix it, i highly doubt so, while Vulcan gives you very low level access to the GPU it's not the first API that did so, and it's very likely that developers will still continue to make the same mistakes as they did with DirectX which has by far more internal sanity checks and strict requirements than OpenGL.

Valve might want to see Linux gaming and while they will be most likely able to compete with consoles they have very little chance of being able to compete with Windows based PC's unless there will be a cross platform unified driver architecture or NVIDIA and AMD will decide put as much development resources into their Linux driver as they invest in the Windows one.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#74
I dumped Windows when they clamped down on licensing when they released Windows XP. I've been running Linux ever since.

Whoever solves the Linux program packaging issues is going to make the best contribution to Linux in years.

When you install a distro, the packages are old. This is due to the way the distro model works. When you have a lot of upstream distributions (e.g. Mint has Ubuntu, then Debian), the installed packages are quite dated.

PPA's are a workaround to get the latest versions of programs installed on a Debian distro. As an example: Jetbrains does this with the excellent PyCharm community edition IDE. On the other extreme, if you want the latest version of KiCad a schematic capture program, you need to compile it yourself.

Once someone comes up with an easy method for the users to install latest versions of software applications, Linux will start to make more inroads on the desktop.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#75

Unfortunately, no. I use Linux on a daily basis on my desktop, and while it's great for development (if you develop for Linux), it sucks for everything else (compared to Windows, for example). > Linux is now a viable gaming platform, thanks in large part to the efforts of Valve and GOG.com. Six of the top ten games on Steam right now support Linux. No. Look at the most recent SteamOS/PC review from Ars: http://arstec…

I have to agree my XPS15 from Dell isn't viable for native Linux installs (NVIDIA Optimus not supported on Linux, cannot connect external displays, can't really use the discrete GPU).

The mouse pad works kinda funky, touch display bugs out, scaling doesn't work well in Gnome/KDE (works sorta well in Unity) since it doesn't have 1:1 pixel doubling due to the resolution Dell chose.

Battery life is considerably poorer on Linux, i might need to play with Intel's AMT but I really don't feel that for a desktop distro I should be recompiling my own kernel with various modules and flags, the fan control is pretty awful and has 2 modes silent and jet engine and nothing in between.

On the software side well 3 major pieces of software missing Office which can be mitigated with Office 365 (sorry folks OpenOffie/LibreOffice isn't there yet for actual work), Exchange client and non-browser / SSL extender based clients for enterprise grade VPN's (Checkpoint, CISCO, Juniper etc.).

For me this presents a huge problem when I actually need to use my computer for work, this pretty much gives me 2 options either do all the technical aspects of my work on a VM or do or the non-technical aspects (office, communication, reporting etc.) in a VM. Considering that VM Workstation works better for me on Windows (better performance, no compatibility issues) than Linux and some software that actually needs things like 3D acceleration like Office 2013 onwards runs very poorly in my Windows Guest on a Linux Host (due to lack of support for the OPTIMUS "chip") it's a no brainier for me.

Other things that make me stir clear of Linux as the primary OS are the simple little things that while might be trivial are very important things like connecting to a projector or using what ever magic wand HID the client might have during a presentation I just don't want to have to be in a position saying gosh sorry the display port to VGA adapter isn't working or i can't use that mouse because it just looks horribly unprofessional and yes I know I could solve these issues but in many cases there isn't an easy way to solve them universally and wasting 10-15 min on finding some config file to edit and then restarting the xserver to make it work will just make one look bad.

That said if you want to utterly stick to Linux as a desktop today it's very possible if you A) don't need to use most commercial enterprise software B) have complete control over your hardware selection and C) don't need to waste much time doing non-technical stuff on your machine.

Sadly I haven't found many places that would enable at least me to do so so Windows/OSX is the only way to go for me.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#76

Unfortunately, no. I use Linux on a daily basis on my desktop, and while it's great for development (if you develop for Linux), it sucks for everything else (compared to Windows, for example). > Linux is now a viable gaming platform, thanks in large part to the efforts of Valve and GOG.com. Six of the top ten games on Steam right now support Linux. No. Look at the most recent SteamOS/PC review from Ars: http://arstec…

I keep checking out Linux Mint as an alternative at every update as an alternative to Windows for family members, but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be.

Aside from that, applications like Skype have terrible support/interface for linux.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#77
post #74

I dumped Windows when they clamped down on licensing when they released Windows XP. I've been running Linux ever since. Whoever solves the Linux program packaging issues is going to make the best contribution to Linux in years. When you install a distro, the packages are old. This is due to the way the distro model works. When you have a lot of upstream distributions (e.g. Mint has Ubuntu, then Debian), the installed…

I think Arch does that fairly well by always having the most recent software available. Did you try it and see whether you liked that?

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#78

I feel like I've read an article like this every so often for the past 10 years. I run Linux on my laptop, but it's often a pain in the ass. To be fair though, all operating systems suck in their own ways.

Linux sucks time MS sucks money OS X sucks VC money

Linux sucks time

OSX sucks money

MS sucks

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#79

- Linux is as far from a gaming platform as ever. - Hardware issues are major PITA, touchpads never work, when you have a convertible laptop, keyboard doesn't disable when turning it into a tablet mode and so on. Not to mention audio. - No distro has nice fonts. - In my case, Ubuntu took exactly an hour before throwing an error at me. I use Linux every day and I prefer it to Windows or Mac OS X, but take your pink gl…

Every touchpad I had worked with was much better on Linux, touchpads on Windows were too laggy to even work with (if you are used to OSX) Fonts... I still haven't figured out how set up Windows fonts on 14" full HD to be readable -- small are small , large fonts are blurred.

Re: Linux has matured into a robust desktop operating system

#80
post #74

I dumped Windows when they clamped down on licensing when they released Windows XP. I've been running Linux ever since. Whoever solves the Linux program packaging issues is going to make the best contribution to Linux in years. When you install a distro, the packages are old. This is due to the way the distro model works. When you have a lot of upstream distributions (e.g. Mint has Ubuntu, then Debian), the installed…

I think Arch does that fairly well by always having the most recent software available. Did you try it and see whether you liked that?

I'm using Arch and I really like it. However, it does take way more time and effort to install than the more mainstream distros like Ubuntu and Fedora, especially if you're like me and you're used to things like wifi "just working."

Antergos and Manjaro are both distros that try to streamline the process of Arch linux installation. I have yet to try either one, I wonder how well they work.

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