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We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

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Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#71

Post by jblow »

mfoy_ wrote: post #46
kitd wrote: post #41

> We do tend to have this unexamined assumption that the individual is a huge fucking deal. Because it feels to use that we are. Because our neurological equipment seems to demonstrate to each of us that we are quite obviously the exact center of the universe. Taking time to practise stepping outside one's own POV and attempting to measure your life objectively against whatever scale of value you hold is one of the m…

Perhaps you confused "prayer" with "meditation" or something else?

There are many different kinds of prayer in the (for example) Christian tradition. You might be thinking of intercessionary prayer, but there is also contemplative prayer which is indeed a lot more like meditation.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#72

Post by burkaman »

jacobolus wrote: post #64
burkaman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think a lot of Americans would be surprised how much people in other countries know about the US. For example, a significant portion of Americans probably know basically nothing about France, and French government. France doesn't really affect their lives at all, and the mainstream news only mentions the country when a really major story happens. But glancing at the front page of the Le Monde website, I se…

In the past four days, the New York Times has published 36 news stories about Europe, plus various multimedia features and opinion pieces. http://www.nytimes.com/pages/world/europe/index.html

It still seems like many (not all) of those are major world events, or stories that involve the US (Volkswagen, the FBI, Jeb Bush, Libor, etc.) And that's a section about 50 different countries.

If I look at the Le Monde Americas section (http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/) I count 12 stories about the US in the last 4 days, the majority of which have very little relevance to the rest of the world. There's lots about Keystone, the University of Missouri racism scandal, the Seattle gum wall thing, etc.

I'm not saying Americans don't care about the rest of the world or that the news doesn't report on stuff outside our borders, but comparing US news about Europe to European news about the US is sort of proving my point. I think Europeans tend to know more about the US than Americans know about any one European country.

Also, this discussion is specifically focused on culture. I see maybe one or two culture-related articles on that NYTimes page, and pretty much no non-US articles in the Arts section. I think all the articles there about foreign artists are specifically about what they're doing in the US.

Whereas Le Monde, while of course it's focused on French culture, has Fallout 4, YouTube, a couple American art auctions, James Bond (maybe that's cheating though), Justin Bieber, and more. US culture is everywhere, and no one country or even continent gets that much space in American newspapers.

Finally, since I'm now realizing that picking a newspaper called "The World" might have biased my results, L'Express and Le Figaro seem to have similar amounts of American politics and culture.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#74

Post by burkaman »

jerf wrote: post #70
burkaman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think a lot of Americans would be surprised how much people in other countries know about the US. For example, a significant portion of Americans probably know basically nothing about France, and French government. France doesn't really affect their lives at all, and the mainstream news only mentions the country when a really major story happens. But glancing at the front page of the Le Monde website, I se…

Non-Americans know a lot of facts about the US. However, the evidence that non-Americans know a lot about life in the US is much thinner; you get exactly, and I do mean exactly , the same sort of stereotyped impressions of a complex country that Americans have of others. It's exactly the same because it sources from the exact same human brain patterns. We're all just human in the end. I'd also observe that since the…

Well I wasn't trying to criticize Americans, so no argument here. I think there are good reasons for this imbalance.

But I think it goes farther than French people knowing who Obama is. Yes, for every French article about Obama, there's an American article about some world leader. But French newspapers also have articles about a scandal at the University of Missouri, local police shooting stories, and again this Keystone stuff that frankly nobody should care about. US news doesn't carry that kind of story about other countries, because frankly I don't think anybody would care.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#75

Post by snowwrestler »

The study of criticism teaches one to crack open cultural artifacts like novels, paintings, plays, movies, etc. and look for the motivations and influences of their creators. It is a very useful way to examine a culture, including a culture you might find yourself in, even if it is a culture that you grew up in and would therefore be sort of blind to.

And it provides a set of mental tools that can be useful for the rest of your life, to answer questions like "why did he write that email?" or "why did that politician say that?" or "what does this news article really mean?" This is why I recommend that even technical track students like engineers take a few liberal arts classes if they can.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#76

Post by greggman »

protomyth wrote: post #48
drumdance wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think international travel should be mandatory, especially for US citizens. The longest I've stayed anywhere overseas is a month, but even a few days in another country can be eye-opening.

You don't really need to go overseas as a US citizen as a trip to a different region will do exactly the same thing. Its pretty amazing what a person from NYC can learn about themselves when they end up on a reservation in ND for a couple of months. Very enlightening for those students. I had my eureka moment when I took a job in urban MN after working on the reservation for 5 years (and growing up there before that)…

It's not nearly the same magnitude of different.

Some examples: Pretty much all of the USA, Canada and Europe are heavily influenced by Christianity. So, come to Japan where there's almost zero Christian influence.

Or take Singapore (Japan as well) both places that are super safe. I never felt unsafe in the USA until I lived in Japan and Singapore. Things USA culture just takes for granted (your car will get broken into if you leave anything showing. Dark alleys are to be avoided. Losing your wallet means never getting it back. ...) all things that aren't actually true they're just so internalized in the culture we don't recognize the aren't actually facts of the world but rather facts of current western culture.

I'm sure India and China also different magnitudes of difference than US regions.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#77

Post by superuser2 »

Nadya wrote: post #66
superuser2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transatlantic roundtrip airfare for a family of 4 at a time kids will have off from school is around $5500. That's before you start getting places to sleep for any appreciable amount of time, car rentals or train tickets (which are quite expensive), etc. Median income in the US is around $50,000. $7-8k is a family car, most of somebody's student loan balance, the entire electronics budget for ~5 years. You want them…

Without even getting into money - try taking 2 or 3 weeks off work and see if you still have your job in most places... taking time off is a rarity in the U.S for anything short of maternity leave. Meanwhile many other countries have mandatory time off. As in "you better take off at least 21 days this year." Seriously, just take a look at this. [0] United States has 0 days off. Over half the list is >15 days. Those p…

Unfortunately, many people will look at this list and tell you that's why the United States is so much more prosperous. Vacation time and workers rights == laziness in many people's minds.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#78

Post by vlehto »

kitd wrote: post #41

> We do tend to have this unexamined assumption that the individual is a huge fucking deal. Because it feels to use that we are. Because our neurological equipment seems to demonstrate to each of us that we are quite obviously the exact center of the universe. Taking time to practise stepping outside one's own POV and attempting to measure your life objectively against whatever scale of value you hold is one of the m…

I think the real deal is to examine the confines of your perspective, not to try and abandon it.

If you notice you are biased, trying really hard not to be will more likely to result lying to oneself than unbiasing oneself.

Best you can do is to learn the signs. And when you can check the boxes look for help. After all, we are all here for each other.

Meanwhile my perspective is incomplete, biased and ugly. But it's mine and I love it.

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#79

Post by [deleted] »

burkaman wrote: post #72
jacobolus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past four days, the New York Times has published 36 news stories about Europe, plus various multimedia features and opinion pieces. http://www.nytimes.com/pages/world/europe/index.html

It still seems like many (not all) of those are major world events, or stories that involve the US (Volkswagen, the FBI, Jeb Bush, Libor, etc.) And that's a section about 50 different countries. If I look at the Le Monde Americas section ( http://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/ ) I count 12 stories about the US in the last 4 days, the majority of which have very little relevance to the rest of the world. There's lots about…

[deleted]

Re: We can't see our culture very well, because we see with it

#80

Post by aturek »

ThomPete wrote: post #35

One of my biggest eureka-moments I had when I moved to the states from Denmark — wasn't what I learned about the US — but what I learned about Denmark. I suddenly saw things about my own culture clearly when I wasn't surrounded by confirmation bias of specific ways of looking at things. One of the most eye-opening experiences for me; If you wan't to understand something you need to understand it through things that a…

What's an example of something you suddenly understood?
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