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Ledger, a command-line accounting system

ledger-cli.org

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Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#71

Post by cel »

clord wrote: post #30

Been using ledger for 9 years as well (hledger lately.) Never have a hitch. The only complaint I have is that I can't (easily) keep AR in sync with online invoicing software. minor though. Would love to have some git-style integration with my bank and other accounts. `ledger pull savings` or `ledger pull invoices`

I like that interface idea. There is ledger-autosync (in Debian and on GitHub[0]), which should pull transactions from with accounts with OFX. I haven't tried it as none of my accounts are reachable through OFX.

[0] https://github.com/egh/ledger-autosync

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#72

Post by inopinatus »

Havoc wrote: post #45
aidenn0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing ledger to cleaning the parade ground with a toothbrush is misunderstanding the feature set. Similar to comparing it to Excel custom rolled solutions. This is a true double-entry accounting system that happens to have a CLI. It definitely does not have the feature set of a proper ERP, but it can effectively be used in place of an SME accounting package. Out of curiosity, what makes an accounting package "leg…

>not intended as an attack Don't worry. I knew I'd catch grief. I know HN is strong on CLI love and thin on actual accounting experience. ;) >This is a true double-entry accounting system that happens to have a CLI. Double entry has existed in paper format since before the dawn of time. Its not particularly revolutionary (CLI or not) in fact its bare minimum for sanity. Hence my comment that this is barely a step abo…

I have actual accounting experience so by your first point I am qualified to comment.

I doubt CLI snobbery is a factor; that would be infantile. I suspect others downvoted you for taking the default position that the status quo is the best prospect - hardly a hacker's point of view and certainly not in keeping with the startup community.

Had Rod Drury agreed with you, he might never have started Xero.

My finding is that once one is trained in the basics of double-entry book-keeping, accounting standards, finance and taxation, then any package that keeps appropriate records and generates the right reports will do. To which end, Ledger seems a perfectly reasonable choice for a micro business or self-bootstrapped lean startup. Comparing it to an ERP platform is a non sequitur. A better discussion might be around the transition triggers.

Moreover, Ledger could serve as the accounting module of a larger system that benefits from double-entry book-keeping, such as a trading platform or two-sided network business. I say that with confidence because I'm building one.

By the way, a little historical research: double-entry was invented in the fifteenth century; hardly the dawn of time.

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#73

Post by jldugger »

merb wrote: post #18
grhmc wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7707262 Unaffiliated with, but an extremely pleased user of http://www.youneedabudget.com .

accounting != budget management accounting is more a business thing. all accounts needs to be balanced ie you always needs to have zero.

C'mon this is HN. If your personal budget doesn't zero out, you're not planning carefully enough.

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#74

Post by saaadhu »

peteretep wrote: post #57
e12e wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about this. I thought double entry book-keeping was mostly an artefact of manual/analog book-keeping. Humans are notoriously error-prone, and it's easier to avoid errors when two sets of numbers are supposed to balance out (ideally, exactly). How is double entry beneficial once all transactions are documented digitally? Could you give a somewhat concrete example? (Contrived or otherwise)?

Double-entry refers to the number of accounts related to a transaction, rather than the process of entering it twice. When you think about it, all transactions have naturally (at least) a from and a to account. In the simplest example, I move $100 from one checking account to another. This is a pain to model in a spreadsheet, where I literally create two entries, but very easy to model in an electronic dual-entry sys…

Newbie to ledger here.

Why not move $x from checking to Holiday Budget every month, and then track holiday spending by moving money from Holiday Budget to Spent on Holidays?

Guess it throws off net worth calculations a bit, as you'd have to include the Holiday Budget as well in there. Are there other reasons?

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#75

Post by jldugger »

merb wrote: post #18
grhmc wrote: post #4

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7707262 Unaffiliated with, but an extremely pleased user of http://www.youneedabudget.com .

accounting != budget management accounting is more a business thing. all accounts needs to be balanced ie you always needs to have zero.

C'mon this is HN. If your personal budget doesn't zero out, you're not planning carefully enough.

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#76

Post by sophacles »

saaadhu wrote: post #74
peteretep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Double-entry refers to the number of accounts related to a transaction, rather than the process of entering it twice. When you think about it, all transactions have naturally (at least) a from and a to account. In the simplest example, I move $100 from one checking account to another. This is a pain to model in a spreadsheet, where I literally create two entries, but very easy to model in an electronic dual-entry sys…

Newbie to ledger here. Why not move $x from checking to Holiday Budget every month, and then track holiday spending by moving money from Holiday Budget to Spent on Holidays? Guess it throws off net worth calculations a bit, as you'd have to include the Holiday Budget as well in there. Are there other reasons?

Check out this section and the following section of the ledger docs: http://ledger-cli.org/3.0/doc/ledger3.html#Dealing-with-Pett...

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#77

Post by shortstuffsushi »

colindean wrote: post #46

I've used Ledger extensively for a side business as well as for timekeeping for work. It's incredibly powerful and incredibly unforgiving. If you want to keep PDF, JPG, etc. receipts with it, just put them in the same directory and note them in a comment. Additionally, use a VCS that does binaries well. Git does not.

Your "unforgiving" comment is actually exactly what makes me nervous about using this (a command line util) vs a GUI application. I feel like (and this may be a total misconception) my poor typing abilities are better caught in a GUI than cmd line, unless the application itself has something built in (like git's fuzzy commands), where most UI applications, at least on Mac, are sort of validated by the OS level field validation.

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#78

Post by sophacles »

e12e wrote: post #47
sophacles wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MoneyDance doesn't appear to be a double entry system. The nice thing about double entry bookkeeping, is it allows some pretty complicated cash-flow tracking - so setting up your accounts for a small business or consultancy is a bit easier.

I'm curious about this. I thought double entry book-keeping was mostly an artefact of manual/analog book-keeping. Humans are notoriously error-prone, and it's easier to avoid errors when two sets of numbers are supposed to balance out (ideally, exactly). How is double entry beneficial once all transactions are documented digitally? Could you give a somewhat concrete example? (Contrived or otherwise)?

@peteretep gave a great reply - maybe better than this one, but here's my view on it:

Stuff like this (and the next section) is easily doable: http://ledger-cli.org/3.0/doc/ledger3.html#Dealing-with-Pett...

A lot of the things you'll think to do in an electronic system, with tags and tables and so on, can ultimately be modeled by accounts in a double entry system, and probably just as powerfully once you add things like "virtual accounts" and the like.

At some point, it's sort of like greenspun's 10th rule - any sufficiently advanced money tracking system will implement a version of double entry accounting in it.

Re: Ledger, a command-line accounting system

#79

Post by sophacles »

peteretep wrote: post #44
sophacles wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MoneyDance doesn't appear to be a double entry system. The nice thing about double entry bookkeeping, is it allows some pretty complicated cash-flow tracking - so setting up your accounts for a small business or consultancy is a bit easier.

> MoneyDance doesn't appear to be a double entry system You didn't look very carefully then

All I found was an FAQ entry from MoneyDance talking about how underneath it's double entry, but they try their hardest to hide that fact from the users. So, yeah, I guess technically it's double entry, but not in a way that is immediately obvious for a lot of use cases.
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