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Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

independent.co.uk

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Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#71

Post by InclinedPlane »

hoodoof wrote: post #44

To really solve the social problems, the sale needs to be legalised. Making the sale a criminal offence puts money into the hands of organized crime, drives up the prices, forces addicts to steal to buy their drugs and leads drug users to take "worse" drugs like methamphetamine because "better" drugs aren't easily available. Drugs need to be made legally to ensure quality, to remove harmful impurities, to ensure the…

It doesn't matter if using meth will 100% guarantee that someone's life is ruined, people still need to have that freedom. Because denying it actually leads to worse outcomes, and worse negative externalities.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#72

Post by gfsn54nsf »

hoodoof wrote: post #68
cthalupa wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only caveat is that methamphetamine should remain illegal to buy or use. The idea being that people will use "less harmful" drugs than methamphetamine because they are available cheap, easy and clean. The strongest possible justification for legalization of sale and use of drugs is to minimize usage and supply of the greatest of all evils - methamphetamine. You seem to have an oddly demonized view of methampheta…

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying meth is "not that bad"? If so then you and I must be reading different newspapers and watching different TV channels.

I think his point is that (a) it's hard to say meth is that much worse than other hard drugs like heroin or crack, and (b) over-the-counter meth that's of a guaranteed potency and without adulterants might not be as harmful to the user as the bluish, vinegar-smelling stuff your second cousin Skeeter cooks up.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#73

Post by aianus »

gearoidoc wrote: post #36
Geekette wrote: post #32

Very interesting news! I wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront. When I got to the paragraph below, I also couldn't help wondering which nation that was: "His comments follow a leaked report from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, appearing to call for a worldwide decriminalisation on 19 October. The report was reportedly withdrawn after at least one nation put pressure on the international…

Curious as to why you "wouldn't have expected Ireland to be on this forefront". Not trying to sound accusatory - just genuinely curious on the perception.

They still criminalize abortion over there. I definitely had the perception it was a highly religious and conservative country.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#74

Post by steve1011 »

hoodoof wrote: post #68
cthalupa wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only caveat is that methamphetamine should remain illegal to buy or use. The idea being that people will use "less harmful" drugs than methamphetamine because they are available cheap, easy and clean. The strongest possible justification for legalization of sale and use of drugs is to minimize usage and supply of the greatest of all evils - methamphetamine. You seem to have an oddly demonized view of methampheta…

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying meth is "not that bad"? If so then you and I must be reading different newspapers and watching different TV channels.

thats exactly what he is saying. Relative to some illegal substances, meth is not worse or somehow more heinous. Part of the problem when many talk about the legalization of drugs is the inherited biases one acquires from paying attention or taking at face value what sources like the media or government say about these substances. The problem isn't that certain substances are much worse than others, it's the fact that these substances (harmful or otherwise) are relegated to the black market.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#75

Post by aianus »

bcook wrote: post #69
hoodoof wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth junkies go on violent psychotic rampages killing and injuring other people and have no other thought in their brains except to get more meth. When I read in the newspaper about someone murdering their family I expect, and often find either a statement or suggestion that the perpetrator was using meth. Heroin junkies go to sleep and are making a poor health choice but it is possible with clean heroin to lead a fu…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addictio…

> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin.

There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin.

> Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant.

Heroin addiction doesn't kill you. What kills you is when you buy a gram that's three times as pure as the last one so you accidentally overdose.

Even if you don't believe addicts can lead normal lives, as long as they're shooting up clean, cheap heroin of predictable purity there at least exists a chance of rehabilitation and a normal life in their futures.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#76

Post by Tossrock »

hoodoof wrote: post #68
cthalupa wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only caveat is that methamphetamine should remain illegal to buy or use. The idea being that people will use "less harmful" drugs than methamphetamine because they are available cheap, easy and clean. The strongest possible justification for legalization of sale and use of drugs is to minimize usage and supply of the greatest of all evils - methamphetamine. You seem to have an oddly demonized view of methampheta…

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying meth is "not that bad"? If so then you and I must be reading different newspapers and watching different TV channels.

In fact, methamphetamine is prescribed by doctors for serious cases of narcolepsy, under the name Desoxyn.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#77

Post by llamataboot »

zanny wrote: post #67
hodder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And of course once you've legalized the selling of marijuana, you're potentially openings the doors for other substances" I agree you've got to start somewhere. I find the argument that marijuana is a door opener to other substances is flawed though. If pot didn't exist, would the same argument be made for liquor stores, tobacco sales, coffee shops, red bulls at 7/11, cough medicine at Walmart etc? Or is it just bec…

Tobacco and alcohol are legal and used because they were staples of the founding of the US. Tobacco was one of the chief exports of the colonies and the new US for centuries and made a lot of people rich and even more people happy. Alcohol is legal in almost every country on Earth because you can make it out of almost everything. What might end up happening is regional fermentation variants are stigmatized. Cannibis…

MDMA and LSD also have medical applications. http://www.maps.org/

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#78

Post by hoodoof »

bcook wrote: post #69
hoodoof wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth junkies go on violent psychotic rampages killing and injuring other people and have no other thought in their brains except to get more meth. When I read in the newspaper about someone murdering their family I expect, and often find either a statement or suggestion that the perpetrator was using meth. Heroin junkies go to sleep and are making a poor health choice but it is possible with clean heroin to lead a fu…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addictio…

Just one link after 10 second Google search:

Fentanyl-linked heroin deaths part of larger drug overdose trend

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-08/news/bs-md-sun-i...

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#79

Post by hoodoof »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #71
hoodoof wrote: post #44

To really solve the social problems, the sale needs to be legalised. Making the sale a criminal offence puts money into the hands of organized crime, drives up the prices, forces addicts to steal to buy their drugs and leads drug users to take "worse" drugs like methamphetamine because "better" drugs aren't easily available. Drugs need to be made legally to ensure quality, to remove harmful impurities, to ensure the…

It doesn't matter if using meth will 100% guarantee that someone's life is ruined, people still need to have that freedom. Because denying it actually leads to worse outcomes, and worse negative externalities.

The distinction is whether or not the user harms other people when stoned. Meth addicts become psychotically violent.

Re: Ireland to 'decriminalise' small amounts of drugs for personal use

#80

Post by hoodoof »

aianus wrote: post #75
bcook wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness Notice that heroin is the worst, both personally and socially. This is well established. Also, I would not use popular media as the basis for any sound argument. :( Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. Heroin addictio…

> Herion junkies lead a functional life including work and family? Seriously, what the fuck?! Cite just one source that heroin addiction is controllable because the addict uses "clean" heroin. There are countless rock stars, for example, that maintained families and highly successful careers while regularly using heroin. > Heroin addiction is the problem, not the adulterants, so purity is unimportant. Heroin addictio…

Agreed. And if your heroin costs cents instead of dollars you don't have to spend your available time trying to steal money to buy it, risking arrest and jail as well as making innocent people victims of your cash-seeking crimes.
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