Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that • Hacker News Board

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#71

Post by zippergz » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 1:59 PM UTC

robotkilla wrote: post #65

Udo wrote: post #35

I've been working as a freelancer for a bit more than a year now and let me offer a counter perspective. This article is a report from the absolute bottom. Part of the problem is the clientele: data scraping jobs are the shadiest, worst-paid jobs you can take on as a programmer. Also, offering the client to pay what they think is fair is a monumentally bad idea. The bigger problem is the perception of value. I regula…

I've been a freelancer for almost 4 years and I have yet to make money via any sort of website. The clientele's expectations are borderline delusional for the price they want to pay. I get all of my contracts through recommendations from past clients and colleagues and can charge from $60 to $90 per hour (the most I charged was $250 per hour for a job I didn't want to do and didn't expect the client to accept).

I don't know where you're located, but $60/hr seems insanely low. Annualized as a full time job that's $125k/yr. not terrible, but quite a bit less than what a good developer can make as base salary at a tech company. But that tech company job comes with benefits, paid vacation, stability, and possibly equity and bonuses. Plus the freelance gigs are rarely actually full time (even if you have enough clients on a steady basis, you need some time to manage the business itself). I can't imagine going freelance if $60/hr was what I was able to bill...

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#72

Post by sqldba » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:14 PM UTC

I'm not familiar with upwork but I've been surprised looking at other freelancing sites and seeing the range of salaries.

It went from $15/hr - $40/hr - $100/hr. But what surprised me was the mix of people in each range; including Microsoft MVPs in the middle and idiots at both other ends.

For reference; $40/hr is about a low-end full-time salary and $120-$150 is what would get you someone hopefully decent from an agency. So pretty much everyone was undercutting what I think was a reasonable amount to request for contract work.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#73

Post by mkagenius » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #58

Udo wrote: post #35

I've been working as a freelancer for a bit more than a year now and let me offer a counter perspective. This article is a report from the absolute bottom. Part of the problem is the clientele: data scraping jobs are the shadiest, worst-paid jobs you can take on as a programmer. Also, offering the client to pay what they think is fair is a monumentally bad idea. The bigger problem is the perception of value. I regula…

It looks like most of the jobs on HN are full time gigs. Are you pinging them to ask about freelance work?

freelance can be a full time job. I am guessing all the "remote" tagged jobs posted here can be considered.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#74

Post by jedrek » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:23 PM UTC

zippergz wrote: post #71

robotkilla wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a freelancer for almost 4 years and I have yet to make money via any sort of website. The clientele's expectations are borderline delusional for the price they want to pay. I get all of my contracts through recommendations from past clients and colleagues and can charge from $60 to $90 per hour (the most I charged was $250 per hour for a job I didn't want to do and didn't expect the client to accept).

I don't know where you're located, but $60/hr seems insanely low. Annualized as a full time job that's $125k/yr. not terrible, but quite a bit less than what a good developer can make as base salary at a tech company. But that tech company job comes with benefits, paid vacation, stability, and possibly equity and bonuses. Plus the freelance gigs are rarely actually full time (even if you have enough clients on a stea…

...in a handful of markets.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#75

Post by sqldba » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:26 PM UTC

zippergz wrote: post #71

robotkilla wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a freelancer for almost 4 years and I have yet to make money via any sort of website. The clientele's expectations are borderline delusional for the price they want to pay. I get all of my contracts through recommendations from past clients and colleagues and can charge from $60 to $90 per hour (the most I charged was $250 per hour for a job I didn't want to do and didn't expect the client to accept).

I don't know where you're located, but $60/hr seems insanely low. Annualized as a full time job that's $125k/yr. not terrible, but quite a bit less than what a good developer can make as base salary at a tech company. But that tech company job comes with benefits, paid vacation, stability, and possibly equity and bonuses. Plus the freelance gigs are rarely actually full time (even if you have enough clients on a stea…

I absolutely agree. For freelance/contract work the price should be about double expected base salary.

First of all because agencies get away with charging that much so you're just undercutting yourself needlessly unless you join in.

But secondly because there are big costs; liability insurance and software licensing being some of them.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#76

Post by Udo » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #58

Udo wrote: post #35

I've been working as a freelancer for a bit more than a year now and let me offer a counter perspective. This article is a report from the absolute bottom. Part of the problem is the clientele: data scraping jobs are the shadiest, worst-paid jobs you can take on as a programmer. Also, offering the client to pay what they think is fair is a monumentally bad idea. The bigger problem is the perception of value. I regula…

It looks like most of the jobs on HN are full time gigs. Are you pinging them to ask about freelance work?

I mistyped, too late to edit it now: I meant to say the "Freelancer" thread. I don't have to contact anyone myself. In fact, I never had much success getting business from people who didn't contact me first.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#77

Post by altern8 » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

I've been working as a freelancer for about 10 years, getting clients from word-of-mouth, making about 2-4 times what people make here working 4-6 hours/day.

It all depends if you can sell yourself.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#78

Post by Beltiras » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

altern8 wrote: post #77

I've been working as a freelancer for about 10 years, getting clients from word-of-mouth, making about 2-4 times what people make here working 4-6 hours/day. It all depends if you can sell yourself.

He's not opposing freelance work, he's opposing using odesk/upwork to get contracts.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#79

Post by Beltiras » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:31 PM UTC

The client side of the equation may be bad but the profile building side is excellent.

Re: Wanna quit your job and become upwork freelancer? Do not do that

#80

Post by mattchew » Sat, Oct 17, 2015, 2:33 PM UTC

zippergz wrote: post #71

robotkilla wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a freelancer for almost 4 years and I have yet to make money via any sort of website. The clientele's expectations are borderline delusional for the price they want to pay. I get all of my contracts through recommendations from past clients and colleagues and can charge from $60 to $90 per hour (the most I charged was $250 per hour for a job I didn't want to do and didn't expect the client to accept).

I don't know where you're located, but $60/hr seems insanely low. Annualized as a full time job that's $125k/yr. not terrible, but quite a bit less than what a good developer can make as base salary at a tech company. But that tech company job comes with benefits, paid vacation, stability, and possibly equity and bonuses. Plus the freelance gigs are rarely actually full time (even if you have enough clients on a stea…

Location makes a big difference. I live in the Midwest and there aren't many $125K positions out here. But a 3 BR house in good shape in a decent neighborhood can be less than 100K.

Freelancing at $~60/hour * ~30 hours/week can work fine here. You can raise a family on it no problem. You're not going to retire early this way, but different strokes for different folks.