71–80 of 89 posts
While a cool and nicely illustrated article, I fail to see how it's relevant to HN.
The future is a trend line drawn from the past through the present and projected forward in time.
Now look at this article again and project the role of Islamic power and culture into the future. Scary shit if you ask me.
But a few things...
(1) The ban on non-muslims is not as tight as portrayed. More than a few westerners have been to mecca, many to advise on hajj matters. There are also legendary stories of non-muslim children being brought on hajj by saudi families. I heard stories from neighbours, things more than rumours, but never met anyone who actually witnessed this.
(2) Lots of the people sleeping rough do so by choice. Many simply do not want pillows and beds during hajj. For them it isn't meant to be comfortable. More hotel-type rooms may help, but it will never get everyone off the streets.
(3) Security is a huge issue. Religious extremists have caused plenty of trouble. The Saudis have large numbers of soldiers hidden just out of sight to quell any repeat.
(4) The clockface is horrible, but that is the style in the country. People who go to Vegas sometimes remark about that style, but it is just a matter of taste. If you were living there it wouldn't seem nearly as bad. The clock itself also serves a purpose. Many pilgrims do not wear watches, most all are suffering jet lag and much of the process is now indoors. So like vegas, it is very easy to loose track of time. The various clocks are all big and horrible, but do serve some function. (It also has to be a mechanical clock, else everyone would insist on arabic numerals, which I've never seen on any digial wallclock.)
(5) The King actually does hajj each year, during the appropriate time. He has guards, but they could do nothing for him in a crush. For a man his age we have to give him some credit.
Amazing city. It's unfortunate the Ajyad Fortress (1) had to be demolished to make way for the tower with the largest clock face in the world (2). I also note every time I visited a devout Muslim's small business or home, and they have a picture of the Grand Mosque, it's free of the new modern additions that will facilitate two million (and growing) pilgrims who visit every year. I suppose the Saudi government didn't…
> for muslims, Islam is the religion for the present, and the future. Well said.
Besides, reflection of the past is a crucial component of Islam. The pilgrims re-enact rituals from thousands of years ago. You might even say, without faith in ancient stories interpreted from ancient books, there would be no annual pilgrimage to Mecca.
It seems to me the slogan "Islam is the religion for present and future" is designed to explain the giant shopping mall clock, more than any insight or true reflection about Islam.
Islamic Perspective in Rough (need citation): Prophet Adam (Peace be upon Him) created the first House of Worship at Kaaba. During the time of Prophet Nuh (Noah) (Peace be Upon Him), it was in one sense, 'lost'. Then Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) 'the true' and Prophet Ismail (?) (Peace be Upon them) rebuilt the Kabba again. Again and Again, Kabba and Mecca with it, were lost (to what?) Until At last, Prophet Muhammad (P…
Islamic Perspective in Rough (need citation): Prophet Adam (Peace be upon Him) created the first House of Worship at Kaaba. During the time of Prophet Nuh (Noah) (Peace be Upon Him), it was in one sense, 'lost'. Then Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) 'the true' and Prophet Ismail (?) (Peace be Upon them) rebuilt the Kabba again. Again and Again, Kabba and Mecca with it, were lost (to what?) Until At last, Prophet Muhammad (P…
I recall being utterly astonished by your comment. People were murdered for drawing cartoons and you insinuate that it was partially their fault. Shame on you.
1. HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879215
2. My comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879389
3. rikacomet's comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8879528
One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more. This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudi…
One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more. This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudi…
> "not connected to money..." Kaaba has always been about trade/commerce/money, since well before Muhammad and Islam. It is not a coincidence that Muhammad's tribe had the control of Kaaba where pagan pilgrims came before Islam to revere their many gods (whose representations (statues, icons, figures, etc.) were placed around Kaaba). And, very conveniently, it remained to be a holy place in Islam where each and every…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Being a Muslim is to bow one's will to the Almighty. There is no such thing Wahabi/Hijji/Cultural Muslims. This is cleared in the Quran, that the religion chosen for us is Islam, not Islam Version A or Version B. Again, that's a black and white view of things, and violates the live and let live golden rule. Not just now, right after the death of the prophet Islam began to diverge. The Quran, itself was assembled int…
Since Muslim literalists quashed non literalists such as Mutazila back in the Middle Ages and Islam is in free fall at least from an intellectual point of view.
One thing I like to reflect on when seeing this pictures is the vast difference in the number of people present at the hajj. It's truly orders of magnitude more. This huge increase in pilgrims over the last century is because of new technology like air travel, and the peace the world has experienced over the past few decades that allows people to move freely across the world. But it is due to the efforts of the Saudi…
> "not connected to money..." Kaaba has always been about trade/commerce/money, since well before Muhammad and Islam. It is not a coincidence that Muhammad's tribe had the control of Kaaba where pagan pilgrims came before Islam to revere their many gods (whose representations (statues, icons, figures, etc.) were placed around Kaaba). And, very conveniently, it remained to be a holy place in Islam where each and every…