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Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

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Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#71
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay them the same? Hire 14% more workers, work them 35h instead of 40h, and pay them 14% less each. Costs the same, doesn't it?

Many people will not be happy to get a 14% wage cut, and would prefer working longer. Also, firms have a tendency to just require people to work harder/overtime rather than hiring more. Finally, retirement benefits decrease if they are awarded based on how much income taxes you payed, which not everyone is comfortable with. That is why projects to have a legal 35 hours week usually have extra stuff attached to them,…

[W]hen the normal is that both adults in a household works, that's a [ed: 28%] pay cut (or a 72% increase, if one goes down to 6 hour workday, and the other one gets a job as a result of the introduction of a six hour work day).

In the context of the public sector, one is mostly shuffling money around (welfare vs pay/pension) -- but with tangible health effects: for better or worse, very simply, people are generally better off if they have a job, if the job isn't too hard for them (social aspects of having co-workers, sense of worth etc).

I'm not sure about Sweden, but Norway in practice (through union regulation) have a 37.5 hour work week. And a six-hour day then means 30 hour week. Some sectors do have a 40 hour work week (8 * 5), but also here six hour day, would generally mean 30 hour week.

In Norway hourly compensation is still not the norm (except for overtime) - nominal hourly wage is based on a yearly pay divided by 1950 hours (37.5 * 52 - including holyday pay). I think the idea of paying people per hour worked is flawed in general, even if it seems good on the surface. You pay people to be an employee, to use their skills to help a business or organization succeed. I don't think you can often gauge a persons value by hours worked, and it makes for odd incentives (eg: you get paid more, the slower you work).

Again from the perspective of the public sector, I think, in general, that one wants people to have a "full time" job, and pay taxes accordingly -- which implies they should be paid accordingly. That is part of the premise of a six hour work day -- that you can get "a days work" done in six hours, that working more isn't really good for you or your employer in general. Things like sick leave, efficiency when at work, years of a life that can be spent working -- all points towards six hours making more sense than eight.

We probably do need more data -- we have much more experience with eight hour days/40 hour weeks than with six hour days.

I also think it's important to avid the "one size fits all trap" -- not all work is the same. But that also means that just because Ford thought 8 hours was great for factory workers, it might not be the best model for most modern work.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#72
One of the reasons why Swedes find it most necessary to push for this (they don't to any large extent, but when countries do, Swedes will be among the first) is that we don't do 9-5, we do 8-5 (white collar) or 7-4 (blue collar) because we have 45-60 minutes of unpaid lunch break. As a swede, the term "9-5" sounds like a holiday really!

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#73
post #7

As a swede I think the title is highly misleading. Sweden is not shifting to a 6-hour workday. Sure there are a few experiments but the baseline is that sweden (which has a huge public sector) cannot afford it without raising taxes further. The current forecasts for the future indicates that taxes has to be raised a lot just to maintain the current standard. I would be very surprised if the 6 hour workday would be pr…

Since real productive time of programmers is 2 hours daily and probably for managers is 10-20 minutes, we could cut a lot of dead stuff in IT and don't suffer productivity drop. May differ in other situations.

Indeed, this wouldn't work in the low wage sector.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#74
It might be worth noting that the two companies (Filimundus AB, M Brath AB) mentioned in the article both have about 10 employees each, according to official records from 2014. Both companies have been running since approximately 2011.

I think it's pretty safe to say that "Sweden" is not moving to a 6 hour work day yet. This is two, incredibly small companies that are doing so.

If it was Ericsson AB or any of the industrial companies (Sandvik, SCA, Volvo, SSAB ie Swedish Steel) however...

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#75
post #6

This hasn't been in the news in Sweden a lot, there is nothing "official" going on and I doubt that a fraction of a percent of those with a 40h week today will have anything else in a year or two. The headline (both in the source and here) should read "a couple of companies and public employers in Sweden are testing a 6-hour work day". Nothing to see here.

And it might be worth knowing that the two mentioned companies (Filimundus AB, M Brath AB) in the article - each have about 10 employees, according to 2014 official records.

I'd say that it's quite hard to extrapolate that the whole country is going the same way as these two companies.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#76
post #75
post #6

This hasn't been in the news in Sweden a lot, there is nothing "official" going on and I doubt that a fraction of a percent of those with a 40h week today will have anything else in a year or two. The headline (both in the source and here) should read "a couple of companies and public employers in Sweden are testing a 6-hour work day". Nothing to see here.

And it might be worth knowing that the two mentioned companies (Filimundus AB, M Brath AB) in the article - each have about 10 employees, according to 2014 official records. I'd say that it's quite hard to extrapolate that the whole country is going the same way as these two companies.

Parts of some large municipalities and hospitals (City of Gothemburg, for example) are trying it at a much larger scale than these companies, and the results will be much more interesting. It's still not widespread though.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#79

Can't wait till this happens in North America. I hope we realize shorter work days and basic income in the next couple of decades. Then we will truly have a golden age.

No need to wait for it to happen nation wide. You can already start applying it for yourself. Try to negotiate a 4days week next time. If you can't find any employer who would agree to that, accept standard 5days contract, but then take a day off every other week or something. I'm sure there is a lot people can do to reduce their work time (stress) without waiting for it to "happen" country wide.

Re: Some companies in Sweden are testing a six-hour work day

#80

I would like to try out a 10h workday with 4days/week and a 3 day weekend. Some studies say a 3 day weekend makes you happier and more productive.

I've tried every other Wednesday off. People ask me why I wouldn't just do a longer weekend, but I found the mid-week break to be great. What used to feel like a long five-day slog is much more manageable in two-day chunks.
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