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Project Sunroof

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Re: Project Sunroof

#71

Post by ChuckMcM »

Shebanator wrote: post #57
davidw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting: "1,960 hours of usable sunlight per year" I wonder how they arrive at that number, and how accurate it is? Anyone in SF want to try a few addresses in Outer Sunset vs the Mission? I'd be interested in seeing that number alone mapped out over the US on a zoomable map.

FWIW, at least in my case, the numbers here seem optimistic. I had SolarCity come out and do a proposal for my house in San Jose about four years ago. Because my single story house is surrounded by big trees and two story houses, they said I only had a small area where they could install panels with sufficient efficiency, for a 3kW system. Sunspot says I could install an 8kW system covering 1475 sq ft, compared to ab…

Perhaps it should link to a solar installer, and a lumber jack :-) More seriously though, I installed solar about 13 years ago now on my roof, California has some case law about trees blocking solar, post install, which was decided in the favor of the solar panel owner. The city tree across the street had gotten large enough in the last 10 years to start shadowing some of my panels. So when the arborists were in our neighborhood I pointed it out, and they cut a chunk off the top of the city tree so that it would stop doing that.

At one level this was "fine" in the sense they were totally ok with that and felt they were obligated under California law to do so. At another level, "solar rights" ala "water rights" or "mineral rights" for a property are probably going to become a thing at some point.

In your case, if the trees around you fell down for some reason, you install solar, and the landowners/city replant trees, by virtue of the fact that your solar is there it will impose a trimming burden on the new trees. But there is no requirement that people clear trees to make it possible for you to exercise your "solar rights". That is the next kerfluffle I expect in California.

Re: Project Sunroof

#73

Post by thrownaway2424 »

jvm wrote: post #63

Forgive my ignorance, what does one do during non-insolated hours? Do solar cells typically come with battery packs or does one just pull from the grid? If the latter then the cost savings are a bit less impressive than stated. Also can you put power back into the grid in San Francisco? Is that benefit included in the cost savings estimate?

Solar power systems don't necessarily come with batteries but a decent installation company should be able to propose and implement an integrated system. The Tesla battery pack is an example of some recent innovation in that area.

You can sell power into the grid but PG&E only has to pay you wholesale rates, 3-4 cents per kwh, not what they are charging you to take the same amount of energy out, which is 34 cents per kwh at the top tier. It's basically a scam. You don't want to overbuild on the assumption that selling the surplus would be profitable.

Re: Project Sunroof

#74

Post by sp332 »

Mithaldu wrote: post #33
magicalist wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really mean "uncomfortable"? I don't get it. Annoyed maybe? (like when new products don't come to Apps users) OTOH, just because you have a generally accessible url, the video at that url must be addressed to the world?

No, i'm not annoyed. I understand why they can't offer it globally right from the start. It's the wording itself that makes me feel uncomfortable in a way that is hard to articulate.

"The country", as if there aren't other countries. "For the country", as if it were a competition and this helps put our country ahead of all the others. As if it weren't for the customers, but for the institution of the nation.

Re: Project Sunroof

#75

Post by JoblessWonder »

jvm wrote: post #63

Forgive my ignorance, what does one do during non-insolated hours? Do solar cells typically come with battery packs or does one just pull from the grid? If the latter then the cost savings are a bit less impressive than stated. Also can you put power back into the grid in San Francisco? Is that benefit included in the cost savings estimate?

I'm fairly certain San Francisco lets you "run the meter backwards" and put power back into the grid. That is how they are calculating 100% solar power since the amount you are sending in during the day offesets the amount you are pulling in during the evening. This also means that you don't need to worry about battery packs.

Re: Project Sunroof

#76

Post by birken »

jvm wrote: post #63

Forgive my ignorance, what does one do during non-insolated hours? Do solar cells typically come with battery packs or does one just pull from the grid? If the latter then the cost savings are a bit less impressive than stated. Also can you put power back into the grid in San Francisco? Is that benefit included in the cost savings estimate?

If you are already connected to the grid, then you can simply just feed the electricity back into the grid when over-producing (which is tracked by your meter), and then use electricity from the grid at night.

This actually works in your benefit if you have solar panels, because electricity prices are higher during the middle of the day (more demand). So you can "sell" daytime electricity (at high prices) [1], and then buy electricity at night which is much cheaper. This actually is the main benefit of the battery if you are connected to the grid, you can do the same thing.

1: You don't want to sell past your own consumption though otherwise you get paid very little for it

Re: Project Sunroof

#77

Post by sisk »

swalsh wrote: post #18

Weird, it says it covers Boston but when I put my Boston address (single family in the city of Boston itself) it says they haven't reached the address yet.

Worked for me and my building is next to Copley. But Boston is very fragmented when it comes to service distribution—just see the broadband provider map:

http://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/bos_cabl...

Re: Project Sunroof

#78

Post by jsprogrammer »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #73
jvm wrote: post #63

Forgive my ignorance, what does one do during non-insolated hours? Do solar cells typically come with battery packs or does one just pull from the grid? If the latter then the cost savings are a bit less impressive than stated. Also can you put power back into the grid in San Francisco? Is that benefit included in the cost savings estimate?

Solar power systems don't necessarily come with batteries but a decent installation company should be able to propose and implement an integrated system. The Tesla battery pack is an example of some recent innovation in that area. You can sell power into the grid but PG&E only has to pay you wholesale rates, 3-4 cents per kwh, not what they are charging you to take the same amount of energy out, which is 34 cents per…

Is there no real solar power market then? If your local utility is a monopoly then you basically have to accept whatever the utility wants to pay you (even far below 'market' rate). You have no power to negotiate, only capitulate or try to get the local regulator to enforce fair trade.

Re: Project Sunroof

#79

Post by protomyth »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #71
Shebanator wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, at least in my case, the numbers here seem optimistic. I had SolarCity come out and do a proposal for my house in San Jose about four years ago. Because my single story house is surrounded by big trees and two story houses, they said I only had a small area where they could install panels with sufficient efficiency, for a 3kW system. Sunspot says I could install an 8kW system covering 1475 sq ft, compared to ab…

Perhaps it should link to a solar installer, and a lumber jack :-) More seriously though, I installed solar about 13 years ago now on my roof, California has some case law about trees blocking solar, post install, which was decided in the favor of the solar panel owner. The city tree across the street had gotten large enough in the last 10 years to start shadowing some of my panels. So when the arborists were in our…

> Perhaps it should link to a solar installer, and a lumber jack :-)

Let's not be cutting down the carbon dioxide remover when we're trying to go eco-friendly. :)

Re: Project Sunroof

#80

Post by dicroce »

I live in Fresno, AKA, the surface of the sun. It says my yearly savings on a leased system is $2300! Wow. I may be installing solar soon!
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