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Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

arstechnica.co.uk

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Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#71

Post by a3n »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #14

You agreed to the privacy terms, so you are at the mercy of whatsoever Microsoft implemented. Windows 10 even could totally ignore your settings. I say this, not because I think that this is OK, but to reflect, that even the change of the settings do not save you from the harm, that was done from the privacy terms! Why downvoted? When you disagree, than give arguments, not gutless clicks!

If what a vendor is allowed to do is buried in a EULA that the world knows is never read, then that vendor is hiding something. There's a difference between the letter of the law and truth. Obfuscation is not truth.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#72

Post by Lawtonfogle »

thescrewdriver wrote: post #27
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #14

You agreed to the privacy terms, so you are at the mercy of whatsoever Microsoft implemented. Windows 10 even could totally ignore your settings. I say this, not because I think that this is OK, but to reflect, that even the change of the settings do not save you from the harm, that was done from the privacy terms! Why downvoted? When you disagree, than give arguments, not gutless clicks!

Very few people will read the privacy terms. Just because they have a document people clicked 'agree' below without reading doesn't mean that MS should not be held to account for what Windows 10 is leaking. For many users not using Windows isn't an option.

We need a complete rework of our entire legal system in regards to consent to contracts. The problem is that it'll never happen because there is so much of an advantage given to the capital owners by having it so the rest of the population doesn't really understand what they are signing up for.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#73

Post by Lawtonfogle »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #45
thescrewdriver wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've currently got a system with the Windows 10 downloaded, but I am hesitant to actually proceed with the (up?)grade. Like many people I assumed that it was just the same old Windows with more enhancements, not something with batshit crazy privacy defaults, that even when disabled still leak data.

That is the point. People are tricked into this and most of them did not read the terms or just ignored them. But Microsoft is on the secure side, because you confirmed the terms -- and not many judges in the world will blame Microsoft in this situation, even when you argue, that you haven't read the terms. When you sign an other contract, you also can not argue, you haven't read the terms (even when they are in very…

Uninformed consent is not consent. This needs to be applied to the business world and all other legal contracts.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#74

Post by jevgeni »

inversionOf wrote: post #50
thescrewdriver wrote: post #36

Until recently Microsoft had taken a far more reasonable approach to privacy than say Google. Anyone remember the MS "gmail man" ads mocking the way Google inspects your email when MS doesn't? It seems that MS under Nadella has taken a decidedly Google-like turn away from privacy with Windows 10. MS seems as hell-bent as Google and Facebook to collect as much data about you as possible, even if it is for seemingly in…

"Anyone remember the MS "gmail man" ads mocking the way Google inspects your email when MS doesn't?" Did anyone actually fall for that? Intelligent systems need information to function, and when the intelligence is personalized, it needs personal information. One of the reasons Google has succeeded is because of that personal information, providing services that have enough context that they are three quarters of the…

How is Google scanning massively one's emails a requirement for "intelligent systems" and is OK, but Microsoft sending telemetry data is "over the top"?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#75

Post by jevgeni »

blackbeard wrote: post #5
bsilvereagle wrote: post #2

> And finally, some traffic seems quite impenetrable. We configured our test virtual machine to use an HTTP and HTTPS proxy (both as a user-level proxy and a system-wide proxy) so that we could more easily monitor its traffic, but Windows 10 seems to make requests to a content delivery network that bypass the proxy. Does this mean a Win10 machine setup to use something like Tor will leak the user's actual IP back to…

I've been on Windows 10 for a couple of days now. VPN traffic doesn't leak if the default route is the VPN interface. I tried it and my firewall went silent apart from the tunnel. I have absolutely no fucking idea what it is sending out though. It's always talking to something. I've turned everything off that is documented and use a local account and remove-appxpackage'd everything. Sorry but this release is a write…

How can you trust any cloud service then?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#76

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

Hello71 wrote: post #25
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God forbid Microsoft give 7 the boot for support like they did XP. Windows 7 is standard for workstations at the college administration where I work, and suggestions to switch to 8 are met with laughter across the board. We have trouble enough with China trying to hack us literally thousands of times per day, and there is no reason to trust Windows 10 to be any more secure.

> We have trouble enough with China trying to hack us literally thousands of times per day you mean you did "tail -f /var/log/secure". > God forbid Microsoft give 7 the boot for support like they did XP. god forbid Microsoft try to deprecate OSs after nearly 13 years. note that in 2001, the newest Linux kernel available was in the 2.4 series, with many people still using 2.2.

I mean China literally doesn't stop. Every college, every department, they're all under attack, all the time. Whether it's sanctioned cyber-theft by the Chinese government or one of their thousands of "patriot hackers" they are ALWAYS trying to penetrate our networks and steal our research, personnel information, and so on. This is an indisputable fact, and my university is not alone.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#77

Post by ultramancool »

blackbeard wrote: post #18
jammycakes wrote: post #7

In all these discussions about Windows 10 phoning home, there are a couple of things that I haven't yet seen properly discussed. 1. Do the different versions of Windows (Home/Pro/Enterprise/Education) behave differently? If so, how? 2. Do the pro/enterprise versions behave differently when they're connected to a domain? I'd imagine that the answer to at least one of these questions would be "yes." This kind of behavi…

We have an enterprise edition VM in test and it appears to react the same as Pro at least. Haven't tried home. What is scary is the lack of GPOs to turn this stuff off which you'd expect in an enterprise product. Technically we can't apply policy to make this compliant with our data protection requirements. Their funeral to be honest.

There's actually some GPOs to turn this stuff off. I'm running Enterprise on my desktop... the problem is that many of them don't work or only disable the UI, but still connect out to random Microsoft servers. How the hell does Microsoft think that's acceptable in an "Enterprise" product?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#78

Post by inversionOf »

jevgeni wrote: post #74
inversionOf wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Anyone remember the MS "gmail man" ads mocking the way Google inspects your email when MS doesn't?" Did anyone actually fall for that? Intelligent systems need information to function, and when the intelligence is personalized, it needs personal information. One of the reasons Google has succeeded is because of that personal information, providing services that have enough context that they are three quarters of the…

How is Google scanning massively one's emails a requirement for "intelligent systems" and is OK, but Microsoft sending telemetry data is "over the top"?

While I hardly think you're asking with any sincerity, sharing every keystroke, local system search, application activity, wifi passwords, and so on is over the top. Making that the default, instead of a value-add that you pitch, was profoundly poorly considered.

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#79

Post by t0mbstone »

enqk wrote: post #67

This highlights what we really lost when consumer operating systems started replacing enterprise-grade operating systems. I would have never imagined this kind of things happening on something like Solaris or Irix, which were the base operating systems of many workstations. At some point when Linux became popular it suggested that the regular consumer would benefit from the robustness, focus, reliability of an entrep…

Would you let the creator of your fridge eat some of your food, if they gave you the fridge for free?

Re: Even when told not to, Windows 10 doesn't stop talking to Microsoft

#80

Post by DrPizza »

electricblue wrote: post #9
jammycakes wrote: post #7

In all these discussions about Windows 10 phoning home, there are a couple of things that I haven't yet seen properly discussed. 1. Do the different versions of Windows (Home/Pro/Enterprise/Education) behave differently? If so, how? 2. Do the pro/enterprise versions behave differently when they're connected to a domain? I'd imagine that the answer to at least one of these questions would be "yes." This kind of behavi…

I'd like to know the difference between free upgrades and Win10 installs with a real product key

There's no difference (obviously).
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