“Stop reverse engineering our code” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#71

Post by qznc » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:11 AM UTC

kriro wrote: post #35

This is a marketing layup for any FLOSS ERP company (or the PostgreSQLs of the world). Basically "by all means check our code for any issue you may find. We'll gladly accept any suggestions for code improvements you may have." This post is an absolute nightmare/facepalm. Basically my takeaway is "I guess I don't want to buy Oracle software". It's really mind blowing that this is the position of a major software compa…

If you dump a 400 page output dump of some static analysis tool on a FOSS project, not much will happen either. They will probably challenge you to find the actual issues yourself and enter bug reports.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#72

Post by Keyframe » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:16 AM UTC

kriro wrote: post #35

This is a marketing layup for any FLOSS ERP company (or the PostgreSQLs of the world). Basically "by all means check our code for any issue you may find. We'll gladly accept any suggestions for code improvements you may have." This post is an absolute nightmare/facepalm. Basically my takeaway is "I guess I don't want to buy Oracle software". It's really mind blowing that this is the position of a major software compa…

My takeaway is that tone from them (Oracle) is "We're doing a service to you for even letting you buy our stuff". The audacity of high-horsness(!) is overwhelming.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#73

Post by Keyframe » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:18 AM UTC

dagw wrote: post #48

reacweb wrote: post #33

Reverse engineering is legal in France for research and computer security ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... ).

Sure, but this is a contract matter between two private entities. Oracle can still revoke your license for doing it.

Constitution > Law > Contract.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#74

Post by kuschku » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:19 AM UTC

dagw wrote: post #48

reacweb wrote: post #33

Reverse engineering is legal in France for research and computer security ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... ).

Sure, but this is a contract matter between two private entities. Oracle can still revoke your license for doing it.

In German law, clauses that forbid reverse engineering are invalid, the contract itself still stays valid, though.

UhrG Paragraph 95 and 69

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#75

Post by RobAley » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:21 AM UTC

agounaris wrote: post #54

I don't understand why everybody is mad about this post, oracle has proprietary software that is bound with a license. In that sense I don't see why people do not moan about having to pay a rent because your tenancy contract that you signed says so... Long story short, its a right of a SOFTWARE mostly company to protect its software, open source is not always the solution and reverse engineering something, consumes w…

> its a right of a SOFTWARE mostly company to protect its software

They also have a duty of care to their clients

> open source is not always the solution

No one saying it is. Plenty of other proprietary software vendors protect their softwaqre in customer-friendly ways.

> reverse engineering something, consumes way more energy for the problems it actually solves

When a vendor like Oracle gives you no other option to solve the very real problems that your company has with the software, the "energy consumption" can be more than worth it, even it wasn't the ideal path in the first place.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#76

Post by lorenzhs » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:24 AM UTC

dagw wrote: post #48

reacweb wrote: post #33

Reverse engineering is legal in France for research and computer security ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... ).

Sure, but this is a contract matter between two private entities. Oracle can still revoke your license for doing it.

I'm pretty certain that national law takes precedence over what someone put in a contract.

Example: It works like this for tenancy agreements in Germany. Your landlord can say that you're not allowed to change the locks all they want, and even if it's in the tenancy and you signed it, it's still null and void.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#77

Post by kuschku » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:24 AM UTC

agounaris wrote: post #54

I don't understand why everybody is mad about this post, oracle has proprietary software that is bound with a license. In that sense I don't see why people do not moan about having to pay a rent because your tenancy contract that you signed says so... Long story short, its a right of a SOFTWARE mostly company to protect its software, open source is not always the solution and reverse engineering something, consumes w…

We are mad because for over 500 million Europeans Contracts can not restrict the basic right of decompiling.

So, she's telling legal bullshit just to provoke a fear in people that stops a totally legal practice.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#78

Post by lorenzhs » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:27 AM UTC

To me, this reads like a post explaining the benefits of free software by demonstrating the disadvantages of using proprietary systems. A bit hyperbolic at that, though.

RMS would have a field day.

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#79

Post by gog » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:32 AM UTC

dagw wrote: post #48

reacweb wrote: post #33

Reverse engineering is legal in France for research and computer security ( http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTE... ).

Sure, but this is a contract matter between two private entities. Oracle can still revoke your license for doing it.

Not sure about the laws in your country but I am pretty sure that at least in most EU countries legal contracts between two private entities can not trump laws.

The parts of the contract that do are not valid and thus can not be used as an excuse to break the contract (revoke the license).

Re: “Stop reverse engineering our code”

#80

Post by kabdib » Tue, Aug 11, 2015, 11:36 AM UTC

Wow. Really?

This single blog post is strong evidence for why you should never, ever buy an Oracle product, and if you are running anything written by them, why you should plan to migrate away.

Now, the culture of consultants in the Oracle sphere of influence is pretty toxic and money-grubbing. I can imagine companies being badgered into paying security weasels big bucks to analyze software with tools that cough up a zillion false positives, whereupon the weasel looks like a hero and is paid a bunch of cash, the customer panics and demands that Oracle fix a pile of non-existent vulns, and some department buried inside Oracle doesn't know how to deal. Whereupon the weasel skates off to another company to run the same scam: rinse, repeat, and this blog post.

In which case Oracle should simply call it out: "Please don't send us crappy automated scanning tool reports from the shitty security weasel consultant you hired because those reports are useless, and the same weasels have been sending identical ones in, monthly, for years, and you are being ripped off." But Oracle never passes up the opportunity to express contempt for its customers, nor can it admit to being wrong.

Better to avoid that whole ecosystem.