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As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

thewalrus.ca

691–700 of 946 posts

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What even is a “shared reality”? For example my mum and I could watch the exact same movie and showing at the cinema and still come away with a completely different opinion of it. A: It excludes opinion.

Everything is opinion. A shared reality is just where opinions coincide.

Like whether you teo were even in the same room watching that movie.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What even is a “shared reality”? For example my mum and I could watch the exact same movie and showing at the cinema and still come away with a completely different opinion of it. A: It excludes opinion.

Everything is opinion. A shared reality is just where opinions coincide.

If everything is opinion then there can be no shared reality. The only "reality" that exists is your opinion about there being one.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I called it 2001/2002 or whenever they appeared when I tried to explain why personalized search results are the beginning of the end of a shared reality and therefore the ability to reason and act in public, and with others. I bet some still consider it hyperbole. It's just taking in trends and seeing where the glacier moves to, how the cookie will crumble so to speak.

It is an astute point. I agree that we have largely lost a lot of our shared reality. But as with any "beginning" of a long, diffuse process, people might quibble about the specifics. I offer a few other moments you might gesture toward as the beginning of the end of shared reality. First, 1987, with the elimination of the Fairness Doctrine and the subsequent boom in partisan talk radio shows. Second, 1989, when cabl…

Well, loss of (control over) shared narrative was one of complains of the Church against the printing press ...

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really good at writing code.

It’s good at all kinds of stuff that is search adjacent, “find amesent parks with water feature within 100 miles of me that have rv parking nearby”, etc

Pseudo SQL

  select l.id, l.name 
    from locations as l 
    where l.type = 'amusement_park'
      and exists (
         select id from locations as l2
            where l2.type = 'rv_parking'
             and distance(l2.geo, l.geo) 
But what we should have is a good map software where you could filter by type and distance (How many amusement parks can be in that circle?) and quickly check if there's a RV parking nearby.

The hard job is collecting the data.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#695
post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most hobby communities in my spheres of interest have been subsumed into Discord. It is yet another silo, but it does feel lively. I don't think I'm contradicting you here, I just feel less negatively about it.

I don't think I've ever tried Discord. Is it like IRC? Or more like a forum

Closer to IRC, although they do have forum-like features. Unlike a regular forum, it has no web-facing presence (unless you rig up some kind of bot to mirror it).

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#696
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kagi is not immune to this (it's the substrate itself that's losing quality, not just search) but it's a decent antidote.

So.. how do we design a Kagi, or a parallel Internet, that is immune to this? There's clearly a market.

The only way to be immune is make ads and tracking impossible or at least not profitable enough for bigcorps to care about putting them there. So, maybe a web without Javascript, images, or videos, lol. Something truly primitive like the Gemini protocol.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#697
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet has been shrinking massively. My earliest experiences with the Internet were discovering the world of hobby OS dev around the turn of the millennium, when I chanced upon someone’s personal website talking about their OS, with source code and screenshots and dedicated forum. My mind was blown. I spent two years finding hundreds of small websites dedicated to the topic, hung out on IRC communities with oth…

Well, just as the "internet" supplanted newspapers, magazines (gosh those classic gaming mags), and broadcast television for many people, and how the newspapers replaced the town criers before them, why shouldn't the "internet" be supplanted by a more accessible medium? Why should I have to suffer through Fandom raping me with screen-obscuring banners and "PLEASE ALLOW ADS" just to make some sense of fucking Warhamme…

Fandom and Reddit are not the old Internet, they’re ad-driven middlemen that create nothing themselves. Self-hosted or at least self-maintained sites were the old Internet. After that point, the rot had already set in then, it just took until LLMs for it to metastasise.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#698

I called this maybe 3y ago, but I think so did everyone else that was sane. Sure, we get immense value from AI, but indiscriminately injecting into everything, the one thing we know to be unreliable above the threshold we used to fire people for, is probably the greatest undoing of all the good companies like Google brought to the internet. I mean what a way to destroy your legacy of democratizing information. The am…

I called this in 1994 when that Lee dude opened the floodgates to everyone and everyone brought their problems to the web.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What even is a “shared reality”? For example my mum and I could watch the exact same movie and showing at the cinema and still come away with a completely different opinion of it. A: It excludes opinion.

Everything is opinion. A shared reality is just where opinions coincide.

Not necessarily. A shared reality is one where people are discussing the same thing (within a reasonable margin) even if filtered by their individual perceptions, and drawing different conclusions.

I don't know the word for the opposite of shared reality (maybe private individualized realities), but it results in a scenario where you have nothing in common with other people other than "I saw some thing" and therefore it becomes very difficult to discuss anything with them.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#700

I called this maybe 3y ago, but I think so did everyone else that was sane. Sure, we get immense value from AI, but indiscriminately injecting into everything, the one thing we know to be unreliable above the threshold we used to fire people for, is probably the greatest undoing of all the good companies like Google brought to the internet. I mean what a way to destroy your legacy of democratizing information. The am…

I find it so interesting how many comments about AI start with a disclaimer that of course it's very useful, before pointing out a negative of any sort. I do it too so it's not a criticism, but I find it kinda interesting culturally. It's a reflection I think of the environment that we've created for ourselves, or has been created for us (or some combo) where somehow you can't point out an unqualified negative of thi…

Part of the problem is that there is so much overlap between GenAI's biggest boosters and people who reflexively welcome on any tech change as an unalloyed good. People can be really fanatical about this stuff. Any nuanced discussion of tradeoffs or negative externalities draws insults of being a Luddite.

My own general thoughts are that AI is extremely useful in discrete cases, will cause an immense amount of cultural and societal harm overall, and there's no clear political path to a healthier development trajectory. I don't think that's an uncommon stance, but people espousing something like that get a lot of hate in a lot of discussions.

I can easily imagine an arms control style series of agreements between the handful of leading AI companies and countries which are imperfect but still quite effective at mitigating the harms without stifling the upsides, but it seems clear that the current leading actors in this space have zero interest in that.

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