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Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

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Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#691
post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gemini is a hard-ban. Sounds like you would hard-ban your son from using Internet if it was only introduced 5 years ago

Or a calculator. Oh wait, I hard ban my 8 and 11 year old kids from using a calculator. I wonder why .

That... is not a good idea.

Inexpensive calculators were relatively new when I was that age, and I learned so much just playing with them.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failure rate tripled. So no, it’s not CS major declaration requirements.

> The failure rate tripled And did the rate of students attempting to declare CS also triple? > So no, it’s not CS major declaration requirements Are intending CS majors in your university required to take that specific physics class before declaring the degree?

No.

No. CS majors take a different physics sequence at my institution.

The proximate cause is the wide release of somewhat effective AI tooling. When the tools weren't able to do or explain, students didn't use them. Now the tools are somewhat competent, so students do use them.

The students didn't substantially change from Fall 2025 to Spring 2026. You can have whavever gatekeeping hobby-horse you want, but it's not germane to this particular conversation.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#693
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. But I like to add artwork to my presentations. My artistic skills have not advanced beyond 2nd grade. So I'll make a line sketch, and give to AI to "fix" it. The results are nice and I use them. I have no interest in learning how to do art well myself, so using AI for it is appropriate. But I still write my code myself.

>> The results are nice and I use them. I haven't seen your presentations, so I can't speak to them. But I do know at work there's a lot more illustrations in docs and presentations and such, and they almost all have an AI art "tell". I find them grating and distracting from the actual content. Very rarely do they add anything useful to the doc other than the knowledge that the owner burned some GPU time and tokens f…

That's because of people who treat AI like a magical "give me a finished product" button. Someone whipping up PowerPoint slides tends to care more about saving time than maintaining quality - the (usually watermarked) stock photos of yore weren't exactly the zenith of artistic presentation either.

Like any other tool, the quality of output is proportional to the quality of input. You'll get much better results if you provide specifics (detailed description of what you want, reference pictures, iterative clarifications etc.) and have it work on bite-sized pieces of the process (outlining, shading etc.), with manual verification and touch-ups in between. But all that still requires time, taste and experience, which deflates the "AI will replace skilled labor" hype.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#695

The likely 'real' reason is hidden in one paragraph within the article and has nothing to do with the implication of the eye-catching title: "Both Garcia and Ranade have joined more than 1,300 UC faculty in signing a petition calling for the reinstatement of ACT and SAT standardized testing scores for STEM admissions in the UC system. The petition and its accompanying open letter detail similar concerns with students…

SAT requirement was dropped in 2021.

Not taking the SAT doesn't explain a jump from 10% F's in 2025 to 35% F's in 2026.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally, if someone is taking an intro class in the Spring, that's probably because they already failed it in the previous semester. While that doesn't guarantee that they'll fail again, it does make it more likely.

Sure, but 12 people got an F in CS10 in Spring 2026, which is higher than any prior spring. The second-highest number of Spring F grades was 9, in Spring 2022, when four times as many students were graded (133 vs 34). Separately, there's a clear downward trend in the number of grades being awarded in the fall semester. Perhaps students have the option to take the course pass/fail?

12 Fs across 34 students is not statistically significant. Comparing the spring 2022 vs spring 2026 rates only works if the composition of the groups is similar (e.g. same % of students that previously failed the course), which seems dubious given the dramatically different sample sizes.

That doesn't mean there isn't a problem worth investigating. If I was a dean I'd certainly have some questions if I found out that 35% of students failed a class. But without knowing the specifics it's irresponsible to draw any conclusions about these 34 students with the limited data we have available.

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#697
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some discussion of math skills in the article, but the headline courses with huge jumps in failing grades (CS10 and 61A) are pretty math-light. The former is "CS for poets," the latter is the first CS class for majors - lots of work on scopes, recursion, basic data structures, and, at the end, a simple Scheme implementation. Understanding math well might help a bit, but they're the least mathy classes in the…

Can confirm- I took both of those classes and don't remember any math beyond big O, which only technically counts.

And even that is much heavier in 61B IIRC (speaking as someone who did as well!).

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#698
According to the article, the major effect is they are catching and prosecuting cheaters with a secondary effect that students are over-relying on them for homework or practice, and are unprepared for exams.

The article also talks about the fact that the SAT was banned. I really am curious what percentage of the effect is from no SAT vs LLMs. I guess they haven't had the SAT for a while though so it's gotta be the LLMs?

Re: Failing grades soar with AI usage, dwindling math skills in Berkeley CS classes

#700

The likely 'real' reason is hidden in one paragraph within the article and has nothing to do with the implication of the eye-catching title: "Both Garcia and Ranade have joined more than 1,300 UC faculty in signing a petition calling for the reinstatement of ACT and SAT standardized testing scores for STEM admissions in the UC system. The petition and its accompanying open letter detail similar concerns with students…

I'm not American so maybe I am missing some context. But how did admissions work without test scores?

Excellent question. Sorry that's not allowed. DEI is the name of the game.
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