Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed Bizum is almost default now here in Spain, and for instance the equivalent in Sweden, Swish, is also almost default there. Went trekking into a national park, and the rangers will leave a number to Swish a bit of money if you want to use the fire pits; no other payment means.
I wouldn't say Swish is the default in Sweden because it doesn't support contactless payments. It is widely available though but many, many places only accept card/contactless payments. Of course, Swish is the default for person-to-person transfers, but not for payments. Opposite is also true, some lower-value places (like fruitstands, street vendors) don't accept card/contactless because they don't want to pay visa…
Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
691–700 of 811 posts
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#692Earlier quoted context omitted.
I strongly disagree. Substitute with 'the Chinese mind can't comprehend' or 'the Palestinian mind can't comprehend' or 'the Muslim mind can't comprehend' or 'the African American mind can't comprehend' or 'the immigrant mind can't comprehend'. Obviously that would be a slur and not an acceptable way to phrase a point. HN rightly didn't allow these type of generalization comments against Russians after it invaded Ukra…
America was literally founded on this premise, and it should come as no surprise that our government has (d)evolved into what the founders felt was inevitable. America is fairly exceptional in that it's not racist to say "Americans are ____" given it's a melting pot of so many different races and cultures. That's a beautiful thing, but something that the white supremecists in control of the US are working to erode. E…
> Edit: damn I think this account is actually a bot. It's only pro Israel talking points, islamaphobia, and appeals to the mod to get people banned.
This kind of thing degrades discussion. Please don't do that here.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#693Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [...] the merchant can send an invoice for a payment. Either the customer manually pushes the payment, or delegates to the bank that each invoice from merchant X should immediately result in a payment push [1]. This already very close to how SEPA direct debits currently operate. I can instruct my bank with one click to stop honoring a given direct debit mandate (they'll then block all further payments under the sam…
My central problem is that in current pull based systems (both CC and direct debit), the merchant has access to the information to take money from my account. But that information can leak and someone else can take money from my account. It's insane that digital systems are less secure than cash based system. If a merchant hands me a paper invoice, they can't just take cash out of my wallet. The merchant should commu…
> [...] the merchant has access to the information to take money from my account. But that information can leak and someone else can take money from my account.
Not in the implementation where any new merchant (or even new mandate reference of the same merchant, e.g. for two Netflix subscriptions pulling from the same account) has to be positively confirmed, which is possible in SEPA as I've described.
This is possible because, unlike cards, SEPA has no payment guarantee/chargeback protection at all. Otherwise, you'd indeed need some way of positively approving new recurring payment mandates.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#694Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The central bank controls what payments are permitted by what laws exist, not some risk management system that has decided that your legal purchase is too risky or some foreign state has applied sanctions against you. That sounds worse to be honest. You're essentially asking for the government to be not only aware of but also able to control all digital payments. That upends how money has worked over (literally) mi…
Not intending to defend either system but private financial institutions basically end up deputized as enforcement arms of anti money laundering and sanctions in the US and probably other countries where the payments systems are privatized. That's a why every bank has a big compliance department - the laws say a lot about who and what they can serve and they have to be on top of it. Which yes means sometimes legit tr…
You're right that politicians can pressure private financial institutions into cutting off anyone they don't like. For example Operation Choke Point [1] which cut off legal-but-scandalous businesses' access to the financial system, and getting WikiLeaks debanked for publishing material that made the government look bad.
But some might see that as a sign you need more separation between the state and payment networks, rather than less.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#695Maybe visa and mastercard will stop bulling Americans now that they are the only customer base... Who am I kidding. They will become much worse.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#696Earlier quoted context omitted.
>In EU, Czechia. Foreign(french lol) banks are banning accounts because you work in gun manufacturing industry. In EU. When 2 countries from you, there is a FCKIN' war happening. That shouldn't be happening. French banks on Czech soil should operate under Czech, not French laws. Otherwise the Czech banking authorities should go after them. Something is fishy about that. Also, which banks do French citizens working in…
Yes this is very bizarre. But this is official story, contractors and employees who worked for Czech arms manufacturer got their personal! accounts disabled. They had mortgages in these accounts and bank notify them to move mortgage elsewhere. Reason given by bank, broken internal policy, we cannot disclose which. Goodbye. https://militarnyi.com/en/news/czech-banks-discriminate-agai...
Why is this supposed to be surprising? These kinds of customers are a huge compliance burden for the bank, why should the banks keep doing business with customers that most likely cost them money?
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#697[dead]
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#698I think the headline is misleading to the point of being childish. It describes a consolidation of _online_ payment systems that are currently quite fragmented in the EU. It does nothing about in-store payments. Direct debit cards (10x as popular as credit cards in the EU) are often still MC/Visa powered, and the fastest way to pay contactless (even if that is via Apple Pay).
Online and in-store payments will follow in 2027, as per the article
Only via QR codes as I understand. So no replacement for paying via Apple Watch or card.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#699Earlier quoted context omitted.
The merchant could offer a discount for using it. I agree this could be a difficult battle and we effectively need some alternative to existing card issuers if they are to be displaced. Current contactless payments are easy, secure and allow disputes etc.
"Hey buddy, I give you a tiny tiny discount if you pay without fraud protection..." I mean, some places do that. But for the consumer there is no advantage. It's probably fine at cafés, restaurants and such. But why would you as a consumer want it for any more important purchase? As you mention.
Yes I think the article is vastly overstating the importance of this payment system, but do not underestimate the importance of the sentiment behind it.
The US is done as a global power, all their soft influence is gone, and the EU sees them as an adversary now.
Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment
#700Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. For some reason, most Dutch people are convinced that the way things work in the Netherlands is the gold standard of how things should work in general, and are very hostile to solutions from other countries even if those solutions are better by any sensible metric. This is es…
In reply to .3: bancontact is nearly free per operation, but credit card were percentage heavy fee per transaction... That's why. And don't forget that the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg will prefer debit over credit for payment. Don't forget that the banking world is still under a lot of pressure from the various government (systemic risk assessment for example) and the stakeholders. It's a mess!
Yes, I've heard this explanation many times.
Suppose you have a double Debit/Credit card issued in Poland and you're doing typical shopping for €10 on your way home. You use your card, it presents itself as a debit card, which means that the maximum transaction fee is capped at 0,2% as per EU regulation in effect since mid-2015, so you're paying whole two cents for that transaction. Truly life-changing amount of wealth.
Suppose that you're average Johan and your net salary is €2830. Let's assume that half of that is spent on various types of shopping - this means you spend €1415 a month, which means that each month the card company takes €2,83 from you. I don't know what about you, but if I had €2,83 extra each month, I'd immediately feel ultra-rich.
My Dutch bank account costs €4,30 while my Polish bank accounts are free.
You might say "but anal_reactor, what if tragedy happens and the card shows itself as a credit card, not a debit card?"
I have to admit, you have a point. These fees can be 50% higher capped at 0,3% which means that such average Johan would spend €4,25 on card fees each month. As we all know, €4,25 is more than €4,30 by "negative five cents".
I'm sorry, but if "credit cards are expensive" is your best argument against dual Debit/Credit cards working in NL then you are truly retarded and god be my witness I'm stating this as a fact, not an insult.