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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#691

Post by kakacik »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #647
drnick1 wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've often thought the touch screen should be replaced by a socket that accepts an iPad, The last thing I need is Apple spying on me when I am driving.

Funny that you say that because of all the big tech companies, Apple has the best track record at fighting for consumer privacy. And you certainly cannot say that for any of the car makers that currently have an EV lineup.

Apple has a terrible reputation if you don't cherrypick news. Most of their 'security' stuff is PR work. Its just that rest of competition is even worse.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#692

Post by johanvts »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #326
beaviskhan wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget maintenance costs in the TCO calculation too. Transmissions, fuel pumps, timing belts, radiators (mostly), fuel injectors, emissions systems, etc are all out of the picture in an EV. Servicing those things may be infrequent but is often extremely expensive.

> Don't forget maintenance costs in the TCO calculation too. OK? Then don’t forget to add a replacement battery, replacement battery heating and cooling system, factor in a few extra sets of tires over a lifetime of the vehicle, you can also assume the suspension will wear out earlier, so at least ball joints if not also struts. I’m an automotive EE, there is no free lunch. I have a car we just got rid of in our rese…

I think EVs today are intended to last shorter than the battery. There has been examples of model 3s reaching 250k+ miles on the original battery, a number most cars (ICE or EV) do not come close to before being salvaged. There are also startups re-purposing battery packs for stationary use ex. from old Nissan leafs. So I don't think you should consider battery pack replacement costs as part of owning a EV.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#693

Post by silon42 »

rjp0008 wrote: post #429
slg wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you worried about someone cutting your brakes? A lot of times these hypothetical fears are disconnected from reality. Security is important, but people generally don't engage in destruction for destruction's sake so improving default safety levels has been a clear net positive for society so far. Maybe I'm being shortshighted and a future security exploit will change that, but it's not somethin…

Cutting someones breaks requires physical access to the hardware. Changing: if (brakeDepressed()){ engageBrake(); } To: if (brakeDepressed() && currentTime < '5/6/26 4pm EST'){ engageBrake(); } Can be deployed to thousands of vehicles, and would stop brakes from working during peak commute time on the East Coast.

To cause a huge annoyance, it could just randomly apply brakes for some time, which is probably much simpler than bypassing the pedal->brake.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#694

Post by pbmonster »

robocat wrote: post #401
jmspring wrote: post #383

I have a 2016 Tacoma I bought in 2015. It has ~114k miles, so ~11k miles/year. Gas is 16-18gal/mi. It's paid off. There is no math, outside of major repairs (it's maintained regularly) where any Hybrid or EV makes sense for the next 10+ years. Maintenance ~ 250 a year; Tires ~12-1300 every 3 years (more due to age than wear). So - 11k/year w/ fuel at $5/gal and 16mi/gal - $3.4k in fuel, 600/year in maintenance and ti…

> Unless I went a budget used Prius Take care - the Hybrid battery can be expensive to replace and they do eventually fail. Note that Toyota changed from NiMH to LiIon 2017/18. I recently had to wreck an old Toyota Hybrid because replacing the dead battery was going to cost 2/3 of the value of the vehicle. Context: New Zealand.

> Take care - the Hybrid battery can be expensive to replace and they do eventually fail.

That is true, but median mileage at replacement for the old NiMH batteries is 150k miles (240k km), and the lithium cells have a median mileage at replacement of over 200k miles (320k km) - even though those cars are now 10 years old, not enough of them have reached that mileages, so exact data is still not available.

And don't get me wrong, those cars are bullet proof. Median total mileage of the car could be a bit higher than 150k miles, especially after the car was sold to a third world country. But for most intents and purposes, those batteries (especially the lithium cells) have about the same median lifetime than the car itself.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#695

Post by sehansen »

moogly wrote: post #282
SupremumLimit wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there is also China where over half of new vehicle sales are EVs. Denmark is at 70%, Sweden, Iceland, Finland and the Netherlands are all above 50%, a bunch of other countries in the EU are at one third EVs. In India, 5% of sales are EVs but that is double of the year before and all the big car manufacturers in India are now offering EVs. Even Australia is at 14% after stalling on EVs for years. So change i…

Those numbers include PHEV cars. As a BEV owner, I consider PHEV to be more ICE than BEV. BEV numbers are not as impressive, but we're getting there, slowly but surely. A bit slower than I would've hoped.

The Danish numbers normally exclude PHEVs. Not that it matters, since PHEVs are almost dead as a segment here. Over the past two years 310k BEVs were sold here, but only 6k PHEVs. The situation in Norway is very similar.

And across Europe BEVs are also about twice as popular as PHEVs. In 2025 2.6 million BEVs were sold in Europe compared to 1.3 million PHEVs. It seems the biggest deciding factor is how good the public charging network is.

Sources:

https://bilmagasinet.dk/bil-nyheder/hvor-mange-elbiler-er-de... (Danish)

https://bilmagasinet.dk/bil-nyheder/saa-meget-steg-salget-af... (Danish)

https://www.tradingpedia.com/forex-brokers/global-demand-for...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#696

Post by simondotau »

hypfer wrote: post #609
simondotau wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree with you in the hypothetical universe I think you’re imagining. But in this universe, that ship has long since sailed. Cars are software. They have been so for a long time. The only difference between a Tesla and an economy car from Stellantis is whether the software is well written or not. My wife has a 2015 Jeep Cherokee. For its purpose It’s actually quite a nice vehicle, s…

> But in this universe, that ship has long since sailed. No, you're combining "there can be updates" and "there will be subscriptions, always-online and enshittification" as if it wasn't splittable. It is. It can. It will be. As long as there are people making purchasing decisions, no ship will ever sail. This is just passive HN fatalism as we know and resent it; probably a survival tactic to not go insane in the SV…

Looking at most modern cars, I'm of the view that most of them are so fully whacked with the enshittification stick, that it's pretty hard for them to get even more enshittified without risking sales to actual normies. A very normie person in my extended family decided against an MG because she could tell how bad the software was — an impressive feat of enshittedness.

Right now I don't need a new car, but if I did, it would be a Tesla for literally no reason other than their track record of delivering substantial software updates to existing customers for free, with no subscription requirement and none of the usual dealership nonsense or corporate shenanigans.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#697

Post by dumpsterdiver »

slg wrote: post #441
rjp0008 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting someones breaks requires physical access to the hardware. Changing: if (brakeDepressed()){ engageBrake(); } To: if (brakeDepressed() && currentTime < '5/6/26 4pm EST'){ engageBrake(); } Can be deployed to thousands of vehicles, and would stop brakes from working during peak commute time on the East Coast.

Someone who can write out that code with that specificity should know there are countless technical and procedural ways to help prevent that sort of thing from actually making its way into consumer vehicles (or that OTA updates would be the only avenue to accomplish that). In a properly designed system, the only real fear here is a state-level attack. And I just don't think getting every Honda to crash at 4pm is a vu…

> should know there are countless technical and procedural ways to help prevent that sort of thing

Sometimes when I look at code it feels like I was led into a weird surprise party celebrating structure and correctness, only for everyone to jump out as soon as I get past the door to shout, “Just kidding - it’s the same old bullshit!” All that to say, we’re about as good or worse as anyone else, at our respective jobs.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#698

Post by pepperoni_pizza »

reeredfdfdf wrote: post #620
longislandguido wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A country where you're looked down upon for driving a Focus RS or other "fun" car seems like a boring, austere place to be. Perhaps that's why we never hear about Norwegian car culture (as opposed to Germany and the US). Ferdinand Porsche would have resigned to building apple carts.

US car culture has been dead for a long time, at least internationally. People like big American cars made in 50s - 70s for their looks, but since then all I can think of are oversized pickups, Nascar and Tesla which is getting eaten alive by Chinese competitors.

That is unfortunately not the case - see all the ridiculous ginormous American pickup trucks invading Europe as a "look at me, I'm rich" or "look at me I'm (local equivalent to) MAGA" signifiers.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#699

Post by Tepix »

simianparrot wrote: post #662
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

What about the increased pollution from road dust? In Norway this has led to higher pollution levels that are directly dangerous to people and animals than back when we were all combustion vehicles. The heavier EV's are causing genuinely harmful particles simply by driving on the roads themselves.

On the other hand the EVs produce no exhausts and less harmful particles from using their brakes.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#700

Post by Symbiote »

tialaramex wrote: post #454
skissane wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is still one country that uses leaded gasoline for personal cars. That was true five years ago, but no longer-Algeria, the last country to allow it, banned leaded petrol in 2021 - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58388810

It's actually not clear to me in what sense "banned" is used here. The UK never formally "banned" leaded petrol. They banned sales of new cars which need it, and then later told places which sell petrol that they can only have a small portion of their fuel as leaded, and then (as anticipated) market forces did the rest. AFAICT it would still be legal for the place on the bypass near me to sell leaded fuel but they do…

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/1998/70/oj/eng

This EU directive banned the sale of leaded petrol in the UK on 1 January 2000.

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