Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would nuclear energy research be a good analogy then? Seems like a path we should have kept running down, but stopped bc of the weapons. So we got the weapons but not the humanity saving parts (infinite clean energy)
Nuclear energy hasn't been slowed down much, let alone stopped. China has been building new reactors every year for more than a decade and there are >30 ones under construction. The same will go with AI, btw. Westerners' pearl clenching about AI guardrails won't stop China from doing anything.
Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
691–700 of 716 posts
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#692Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t get it. Even the Soviet Union used money. Simply paying for stuff isn’t necessarily capitalism? Or are you suggesting Anthropic should be state-owned?
No, capitalism is prioritising profit over all other priorities, as we see happening here.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#693Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if they've actually invented a new form of intelligence that can rival or surpass billions of years of evolution? Human creations have surpassed billions of years of evolution at several functions. There are no rockets in nature, nor animals flying at the speed of a common airliner. Even cars, or computers or everything in the modern world. I think this is a bit like the shift from anthropocentric view of intellige…
Without a doubt, AGI will be invented much faster with a model to copy from. But similar to rockets, first we'll needed basic gunpowder, then refined fuels, all well before purified kerosene, well before liquified h2 and o2. LLM feel a lot closer to gun powder than even solid rocket fuel. (but because I'm exhausted by the hype, I'm gonna claim that is based on nothing but vibes)
Made me laugh. Indeed opinions seem to carry more weight if they are a vibe :D
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#694> “We felt that it wouldn't actually help anyone for us to stop training AI models,” How magnanimous! They are only thinking of others, you see. They are rejecting their safety pledge for you . > “We didn't really feel, with the rapid advance of AI, that it made sense for us to make unilateral commitments … if competitors are blazing ahead.” Oops, said the quiet part out loud that it’s all about money. “I mean, if al…
Indeed, Anthropic can’t afford to be the ones that impose any kind of sense in the market - that’s supposed to be the job of the government by creating policy, regulations and installing watchdogs to monitor things. But lucky for the AI companies, most of them are based in place that only has a government on paper and everyone forgot where that paper is.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#695Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they control what the machines do. In a world without power drills where you have the only knowledge of how to make a power drill, you own the construction industry. The drills don't own the construction industry.
But why will the machines allow themselves to be controlled. They are "super intelligent" remember, in this imagined scenario.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#696Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Technology covers healthcare. If you'd chosen to list that in the first place, I wouldn't have said what I did; "supercharge technology and productivity" is looking at everything through the lens of money and profit, not the lens of improving the human condition. > Your attitude is very European, and it's basically why your continent is being left behind And yours is very American. You talk about managing the risks…
> If you'd chosen to list that in the first place, I wouldn't have said what I did; "supercharge technology and productivity" is looking at everything through the lens of money and profit, not the lens of improving the human condition. Bullshit. "Technology and productivity" are not the same thing as "money and profit". You're projecting your garden-variety European degrowth ideology onto what I wrote. > Also, to be…
Don't believe all the memes you read on the internet.
Europe isn't degrowth, "degrowth" is a mix of a meme and environmental scientists; Europe is in fact still growing: thanks to US shenanigans, even with tech stuff that we'd prefer to outsource due to the well known economic point of "comparative advantage"; and also, thanks to Russia's invasion, we sped up energy transition and defence sectors.
> Europeans are so hilariously polarized against the US that they would prefer China, a literal authoritarian dictatorship, to "win any global economic arms race". I guess it's because China is too culturally distant for them to feel insecure over.
Prefer? No. Simply look at the back of most electronics, "Designed by … in California, assembled [by Foxconn] in China" at best, at worst the entire business is unpronounceable in English. Even when you may think you've got yourself an American factory, so many of the bits arr usually made in China, or in Taiwan which is unfortunately very insecure right now. Even when you think you've bought them from a non-Chinese company, with the goal of no Chinese parts, you can find Chinese text on the production label and that you've just paid for re-badged Chinese stuff. You may have a stated goal of on-shoring, but even with the most competent leadership this would be a very hard multi-decade project. (Similar logic applies to us shifting away from your tech, but is slightly easier for us due to open source, hardware replacement cycles, and how little of "your" hardware you actually manufacture in the first place).
That doesn't make China good in any objective moral sense, it's not like China's above doing to us what was done to them in their "century of humiliation". Just, powerful.
Their power is aside from any question of should we prefer the authoritarian in charge of a democracy who threatened to invade, or the authoritarian in charge of a one-party state that's doing some genocide who wants to sell us stuff, because two things can both be bad.
> It's not worth wringing our hands over science fiction scenarios.
AI is already a sci-fi technology relative to what I had as a kid. Or indeed relative to just after the first ChatGPT was released, given what people were saying back then that LLMs would "never" do.
The idea you could talk to your computer and it would write a computer program for you that could solve a problem that you had? Sci-fi.
The idea of computer could generate, not simply find but generate, an image according to some prompt of yours? Compose a song? Win awards for its out when people didn't realise computers doing it was an option? Sci-fi so hard it's become a meme of a robot saying "can you?", as disbelief of that was expressed as a line from the film "I, Robot", 2004.
People are still arguing if these things have or have not passed the Turing test, someone has even made a game about this for Hacker News comments, I game in which I score 0, or even scored negative given I only identified false positives. Sci-fi.
And it's not just LLMs, Even just solving chess was sci-fi when I was a kid. Then it was Go. Now protein folding is solved, and thousands of novel toxins have been found by AI. And yet, when I have told AI-Laissez-faire-accelerationists stuff like this latter example, they still doubt AI is capable of doing anything dangerous.
But the worst part of it? The AI which called itself Mecha Hitler, that AI is in use by the Pentagon, the DoD is trying to bully a different AI company that doesn't want to be used for military stuff.
We're in a sci-fi future.
And remember too that making a "robot army" that can replace all human labour is a stated goal of one of the people running an AI company. Don't get me wrong, I hope he's talking out of his rear on this, but failing to plan is planning to fail.
And you've not, at any point in any of your replies, answered my earlier question: how to manage any risks from AI.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#697Earlier quoted context omitted.
Piety? To who? Simplistic and/or confrontational doesn't mean wrong, even if you don't like the way it's presented. Just because a comment is short, sharp, and to the point doesn't mean the author hasn't thought out why that's their view. No one knows everything, that's certainly why I'm on hacker news. I'm here to learn and expand my knowledge. Unfortunately a lot of people on here would rather driveby-downvote than…
Piety isn’t about religiosity, it’s about, ugh, hate to say it, but virtue signaling. Your last paragraph is so funny because I had to scroll up to be sure it wasn’t me. Literally could have typed that. Many abandoned accounts, same logic. Maybe it’s time.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#698Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand, but being a regular corporation is not the only possible model. Can you think of something better?
> being a regular corporation is not the only possible model the point is that it _is_ the only possible model in our marvellous Friedmanian economic structure of shareholder primacy. When the only incentive is profit, if your company isn't maximising profit then it will lose to other companies who are. You can hope that the self-imposed ethics guardrails _are_ maximising profit because it the invisible hand of the m…
I'm curious about your thinking on this subject, if you email me at the email on my profile I have some specific questions about your views on this matter.
We've already created a digital sovereign nation called State of Utopia which will be available at stateofutopia.com or stofut.com for short, our manifesto is here: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/d6b35b81-0eeb-4e41-9628-5...
We have real services you can use immediately, such as this p2p phone/chat/video service without time limits (Zoom has a 1 hour meeting limit for free accounts) and no tracking: https://stateofutopia.com/instacall.html
Just yesterday we published a fitness tool proof of concept: https://stateofutopia.com/experiments/bodyfat/
We do believe that it is important to have market dynamics, and our model is for this state to own state-owned companies as well. Getting this model right is important to us and we would like to engage with you on this subject. We hope you'll email us to discuss your thoughts further.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#699Public benefit corporations in the AI space have become a farce at this point. They're just regular corporations wearing a different hat, driven by the same money dynamics as any other corp. They have no ability to balance their stated "mission" with their drive for profit. When being "evil" is profitable and not-evil is not, guess which road they'll take...
> Public benefit corporations in the AI space have become a farce at this point. “At this point”? It was always the case, it’s just harder to hide it the more time passes. Anyone can claim anything they want about themselves, it’s only after you’ve had a chance to see them in the situations which test their words that you can confirm if they are what they said.
Re: Anthropic drops flagship safety pledge
#700Earlier quoted context omitted.
A less cynical explanation: It's heavily trained to ask follow-up questions at the end of a response, to drive more conversation and more engagement. That's useful both for making sure you want to renew your subscription, and also probably for generating more training data for future models. That's sufficient explanation for the behavior we're seeing.
Because, Anthropic can do no wrong, correct?