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Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

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Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#691

Post by MagicMoonlight »

ben_w wrote: post #351
thatwasunusual wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give me virtual machines, reliable block storage, file storage and object storage, networking, dns, managed kubernetes, [...] But managers wants to _buy_ these services, not be directly responsible for them. That's where the problem lies, as I see it.

If those managers currently sold on The Cloud, can instead be sold on how much money they'd save not being on The Cloud, then corporate can do what it does best and change policy hard enough to give the staff whiplash. I don't know what managers have been reading/hearing, but for the last decade or so as a developer what I've mostly been hearing is that the only people who actually benefit from Big Data architectures…

You might save 100k in server fees, but now you have to hire three full time people to manage your own servers. And you won’t get the redundancy or the security of having the experts do it across three data centres for you.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#692

Post by ozim »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #247
ozim wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feels like people write that like it somehow is failure on investors side. If you are investor on US market having 300M people speaking roughly the same language and then high possibility to easily spill over the world upsides on the bet are really high, burning cash to have a chance hitting jackpot are much much higher than in EU. In EU you are starting in a single country so like 60M people and your payoff is cappe…

> If you are investor on US market having 300M people speaking roughly the same language and then high possibility to easily spill over the world upsides on the bet are really high The topic is cloud providers. Do you think it would be critical for a EU-based cloud provider to translate their admin GUI to Elfdalian, Basque and Romansh in order to succeed? Or perhaps there are some deeper underlying causes for Europea…

No one is going to start a new cloud provider there are already European cloud providers existing.

Hetzner, OVH, Aruba, Scaleway. Their earnings hang around 400 million euros.

That’s rounding error compared to earnings of AWS, GCP, Azure.

European ones have English interfaces, global CDN capabilities etc. They still are rounding error compared to US ones.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#693

Post by dundarious »

hilios wrote: post #674
dundarious wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a related complaint. Moving services to a jurisdiction where free speech is grossly violated (even the lower level of free speech that was prevalent in the EU compared to US).

In the past, protection of free speech in the EU might have been less absolute, than in the US. Given the actions of the current US administrations and the (in)action of the supreme court, free speech in the US currently doesn't even serve its most essential purpose of being able to criticize the government, without fear of repercussions (e.g. Kimmel, Colbert). As such moving services to the EU jurisdiction is most l…

The Hüseyin Dogru case is far worse to me.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#694

Post by steveBK123 »

Juliate wrote: post #539
Nextgrid wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80k net is 6.6k. If you're getting 80k (which is the very upper end of the range) it's likely you are in Paris, where you're gonna give at least 2k of that on rent for a shitty damp place, and double that for something decent. Trust me I would love to quit consulting and be able to have a chill permanent job that can afford me a good flat and lifestyle. I'm still searching. Spain situation is very similar last time I…

2k for a rent in Paris gets you nice places if you have the time to spend to look for it. Cooking your own food at home definitely makes a huge difference every month. The suburb is quite nice too, if you get a few home-office days. For 4k? you can have a big house+garden at 30min from Paris center ( https://www.seloger.com/classified-search?distributionTypes=... ) As a SRE, I got 65k in Nantes before I quit, and I'v…

As an American these numbers are super depressing, haha. Big city US vs Europe cost of living & wages are almost like an order of magnitude different at this point.

Big house & garden 30min from Manhattan center in practice does not even exist due to the sprawl and poor transit here.

As crazy as this sounds, 65k is the wage paid here now to a doorman/concierge at the type of apartment building an NYC SRE/SWE lives in.

If you want big house & garden that looks like the listings at your link, they are maybe 45-60min commute and 2x the price.

Dining out in NYC ends up like 2X+ as expensive as London/Paris or 4X+ Madrid due to labor/real estate costs. Maybe worse, I just looked up Michelin star 5 course menus in Paris and these are like regular Thursday night 2 course dinner prices in NYC.

So in many ways we collect a much higher gross wage here to then spend it all for a lower quality of life.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#695

Post by scantron4 »

bluecalm wrote: post #443
yobbo wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because EU throws regulatory obstacles at every step. No, the gatekeeping is done by local banks and governments to protect their oligopolies/cartels. There are many instant-pay apps across Europe and they are intentionally not interoperable outside of local markets. Each local banking oligopoly is trying to fence off competition. The main fear is from smaller neo-banks.

>>No, the gatekeeping is done by local banks and governments to protect their oligopolies/cartels. If you are pointing the distinction between gatekeeping at the EU level and country level I am not contesting that. It's clear though that the gatekeeping is the problem here (and in many other industries in EU).

How dare you point that out on a discussion about gatekeeping being treated like a good thing.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#696

Post by ExoticPearTree »

pixelpoet wrote: post #459
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll bite. Nothing would have come of it. Ehe EU would have been upset for 3-6 months, then it would have got onboard with the idea that Greenland is now a US territory and that's that. France has a too good of a cuisine to be invaded. I think Germany would be next, they are running their mouth more than they should and they suck at food. Unless the mid-terms change the political majority in the US, the Democrats can…

This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food. Add in democrats "wining" and I'm pretty sure this post belongs on a Confederate cooking blog rather than HN.

> This is some top notch r/ShitAmericansSay material, especially Germany "running their mouth" and having bad food.

I'm not American and please, please, please tell me about a german dish that is actually on par with what the French make.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#697

Post by ExoticPearTree »

whatthecloud wrote: post #669
ExoticPearTree wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re going to go multi-region and take the latency hit may as well go multi-provider no? No. If you go multi-region, you use the same tooling, same terraform modules and logic and so on. There's little plumbing needed to make it work. And latency wise this is not an issue in most cases, since most of the requests are covered by the CDN anyway. And you don't have to duplicate everything. If you go multi-cloud y…

> If you go multi-cloud you need to learn a whole new set of systems. Isn't the whole point of Kubernetes that you don't need to do this? Also, if you want to know for certain that you aren't "vendor locked", running on two clouds is a constant test of that fact. That is to say, have a stack that can deploy to Kubernetes then have two clusters in separate clouds.

> Isn't the whole point of Kubernetes that you don't need to do this?

In theory.

In practice, all managed K8s offerings use different APIs to provision, monitor and so on. Then you have all kinds of ingresses that are offered by each cloud provider (setting up an ALB on AWS is quite different than setting up a GLB on GCP).

And you really don't want to run your own k8s cluster(s).

The only thing that is somewhat vanilla in all of this are how you run the pods of your app.

And K8s is not "the cloud", it is just an orchestration system for containers.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#698

Post by surgical_fire »

lucasRW wrote: post #689
surgical_fire wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many EU countries have bought US fighter jets (Denmark for instance). This is more related to NATO than to EU. > So, when it's "EU sovereignity", which is it, the Polish flavored one, or the French-flavored one ? EU is not a country. Each country within the EU has its own government, and sometimes they exist in tension and are redundant with the bloc. It is actually a point in favor of a more federalized EU. Each i…

No. "Stronger together" is a hoax, and is only true if all participants are in agreement, otherwise you are "weaker together". 20 years of failed projects (apart from the law saying that bottles should have their cap attached) show that it is impossible to reach consensus with 27 participants. Put 27 people in a room, all wanting something different, nothing comes out.

You are wrong.

Every country in EU is materially better in the bloc, and the only country that left it is much worse for it.

Brexit was such a monumental disaster for the UK that even far right morons in other EU countries had to massively tone down if not abandon any "exit" rhetoric. Now their strategy is to "reform" the EU (i.e.: weaken it).

> 20 years of failed projects (apart from the law saying that bottles should have their cap attached)

This alone shows you are unwilling to engage with the idea of the EU in good faith, thus this conversation with you is a massive waste of my time.

The EU is not perfect (and in fact the expectation of unanimous decisions via veto powers is one if its main weaknesses). But every country, including my own, would be much worse without it.

I will not reply any further, feel free to have the last word.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#699

Post by amanaplanacanal »

tempsaasexample wrote: post #619
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, we'd break away if we could.

I spend a month in Oregon every year mushroom hunting and elk hunting. Once you're away from a few key cities, Oregonians are more conservative and hardcore than even central Californians. I think you underestimate your state if you think they're anti American.

They are a pretty small part of the population though.

Re: Euro firms must ditch Uncle Sam's clouds and go EU-native

#700

Post by direwolf20 »

imtringued wrote: post #673
direwolf20 wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus Torvalds is very pro–corporate, pro–tivoization, he thinks GPL3 was a terrible mistake.

He is against the "GPLv3 or later clause" because the FSF could change the license terms if it gets hijacked.

He is against the GPLv3 itself. He's ideologically opposed to converting the kernel to GPLv3, even if it was possible.
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