Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#691

Post by WorldMaker » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:44 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #602

NetMageSCW wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t repeat the myth that your car is getting refilled every very night unless you are charging to 100% every night or are willing to concede your range is 80% of the stated range.

I do recharge to 100% every night - is that unusual in any way?

Between batteries getting bigger and home charging for many reasons capping at Level 2 (US "dryer plug" / UK regular plug) many EVs don't have enough time to recharge to 100% every night. That said, any over night gains are still better than gas can do.

(The unique US problem that the easiest charging is Level 1 is a complication here, too, because it especially can't recharge modern battery sizes overnight. But overnight Level 1 charging is still a game changer versus no overnight gas refueling. The "what's the point of charging when it can't do 100% overnight?" crowd can be quite vocal, despite gas cars having no easy way to refuel overnight.)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#692

Post by ricardobeat » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:46 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #553

storus wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU car manufacturers decided that cheaper-to-make electric cars must be sold as luxury vehicles and failed to achieve economies of scale China did with their underwhelming initial models they kept improving relentlessly every year.

The corner is turning on this, with e.g. the Renault 5 EV being extremely popular: https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2026/01/france-full-year-202... I've test driven one, fun little car, decent provision of some non-touchscreen controls. Ironically I think Tesla really opened up the EV market at all in the West by starting as a luxury option and working downwards. People don't want to feel they're taking a "hair shirt"…

The ID4 is such a pleasure to drive. Reminds me of a VW Parati from the 90s I used to drive, soft but not boat-y. Apparently it also sells pretty well in China, which is a huge statement to its appeal given the competition there.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#693

Post by WorldMaker » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:50 PM UTC

gogusrl wrote: post #658

pjc50 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ioniq 5N is extremely funny on paper. It's not wildly expensive, nor is it greatly modified from stock, but the engineers decided to just completely overspec the torque on what is otherwise an ordinary family car. So you get a 0-60 time of about three seconds. I'm slightly surprised there aren't more cheap electric "hot hatches", but I think that market is dead even in ICE cars - young people don't have much free…

The Volvo EX30 / MG4 XPower would fit in the hot hatch / sub-compact crossover crossover. Both cars are the size of a raised VW Polo at 4.2m length while having over 400hp and around 3.5 secs to 60. While not exactly cheap, you can get the MG for under 30k eur if you shop around for some discounts and the volvo at around 35-40k. considering a 300hp golf R is over 50k eur they're pretty great options for some cheap fu…

Yeah, it does look like the Hot Hatch category is returning to Europe with strong EV options. (Nature is healing?)

At the moment US automakers are stuck in a "cross-over is the new hatchback" position because Americans got into a tragedy of the commons that has trended towards larger vehicles at the expense of everyone's safety (and energy efficiency and weight to passenger efficiency and general vehicle coolness).

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#694

Post by kazinator » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:51 PM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #519

projektfu wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like manual transmissions but I think DCTs are an improvement for the average car. They seem to have a lot less "hunting" than the typical torque-converter automatic and good precision for the driving conditions. It is easy to put them into a manual-select mode. And, of course, they don't seem to stall.

The manual transmission crowd cannot be convinced. Even when you show them the performance advantages etc. They just want 'fun' and 'engaging', however they define that.

Manual transmissions have certain advantages, particularly in their home next to an ICE. They never 'hunt' for gears; if you want that, you have to hunt. They can be push started if the battery is dead.

Manuals are really good in bumper-to-bumper traffic: often the second gear has an incredible range from slow crawling to 40 km/h. You keep the clutch completely engaged and just work the gas pedal. (The odd time when things look like they are coming to a complete stop, you hit the clutch to keep the engine from stalling. But if the traffic moves again while you are still rolling, then you just re-engage in second gear.

You can do a similar thing in automatics with their 1 or 2 gears, but it doesn't work quite as nicely as that second gear in a typical manual.

Manual transmissions are tougher against heavy loads (than torque converter automatics). If you have to tow a heavily loaded trailer, manual is better. The clutch is fully engaged and so very little energy is lost in the transmissions. Automatic transmissions can heat up under load and can overheat.

A lot of this is not relevant when we are talking electric vehicles, of course.

But in an ICE car, there are good reasons to prefer a manual transmission, even if you're not a sporty driving enthusiast.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#695

Post by catigula » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

WorldMaker wrote: post #690

catigula wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. Hybrids are outselling EVs in the US. Hybrid adoption in the US is soaring. It's doubled in just a few years. They're hugely popular in the US precisely because they're NOT a compromise.

They are hugely popular in the US because there are more of them for sale and they have a lot of momentum from Toyota getting lost in the Hydrogen distraction. From the perspective of a BEV with a modern range, hybrids have terrible all-electric range (if they even have true electric range) and worse maintenance schedules/cost of ownership. That's the compromise: less weight for good batteries for pure electric range…

>and worse maintenance schedules/cost of ownership

Sorry, but this is simply incorrect. The Toyota Prius has the most reliable powertrain on the American market in most studies. This is the decades old Toyota hybrid planetary gearset engine and eCVT. It has less moving wear parts than an ICE engine, a generous warranty, absorbs brake wear, etc. It's pretty umambigious at this point, so I'm not sure where you're sourcing your facts from (vibes?).

Given this fact wasn't understood, there isn't much more content to engage with. Modern hybrids are popular because they're very good and side-step all of the myriad problems with electric vehicles.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#696

Post by WorldMaker » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

tedggh wrote: post #491

melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

“Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” Who told them?

The marketers of the same companies that aren't trying to sell them small, cheap, practical EVs and want everyone to pay for high margin trucks and SUVs.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#697

Post by kazinator » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 9:53 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #527

bluedino wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manual transmission crowd cannot be convinced. Even when you show them the performance advantages etc. They just want 'fun' and 'engaging', however they define that.

I've driven both. I don't know how to define what I feel, but the true clutch is more "fun and engaging". I still went with a EV because it is the right choice, but I want the ICE with manual and if money was limitless I'd have a collection (plus a personal mechanic to keep them all running)

For me, there is the sense that the transmission is doing a precise and correct job, which reflects my intent. That causes the feeling of fun that comes from anything that works well.

On YouTube there are videos of machines doing precise jobs well, which people call "satisfying to watch". Those are relevant to the discussion, I feel.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#698

Post by mpyne » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 10:52 PM UTC

user_7832 wrote: post #314

mpyne wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Being able to shed the ICE bits from the car's powertrain eliminates multiple entire classes of maintenance burden. With hybrid and EREV you get the problems of both types of powerplant and drivetrain, and even though ICE has evolved to be fairly reliable, it's still a very complicated assembly and basic wear-and-tear still is still a challenge. There will p…

> Being able to shed the ICE bits from the car's powertrain eliminates multiple entire classes of maintenance burden. I don't know but is this a uniquely US (and/or a few other such countries) thing, because of the high volume of daily driving? Here in India we send our (ICE) car in for a service somthing like once or twice a year? And that too is mostly because "the engine sounds a bit off", not "the car isn't start…

ICE engines aren't a problem right up until they are.

I had one car where the timing belt broke unexpectedly and because it was an 'interference' engine, that led to damage to the engine head and a piston rod (and could easily have been bad enough to have been irreparable had the timing been a bit different).

Second car, had a loud noise from the engine that resolved on its own while driving up a hill. That car model later has a recall for the engine catching fire. Did I just get lucky? Who knows.

My first car (a minivan), the rear exhaust plate fastener broke while driving and make a noise that could be heard from a mile away... right as I was driving past a bunch of cops on heightened DUI enforcement night. Now I wasn't drinking but I still didn't appreciate my car not only breaking ostentatiously, but buying me a ticket in the process.

A fourth car, also a minivan, had an issue with its automatic transmission where it would struggle to upshift going from first to second gear sometimes. At least once every couple weeks, sometimes more frequent. It was never resolved by the manufacturer or any mechanic we could take it to before we sold it.

Now I did make sure to mention that ICE has evolved a high degree of reliability for a reason, but the fact is that even when the odds of things going bad is low, when there are a multitude of different independent ways for things to go bad (as there are with an ICE engine and drivetrain), the birthday paradox makes it inevitable that something will eventually be an issue.

And even though I had an issue like that with every ICE car I have ever owned, even those I didn't have to take to the mechanic for an issue outside of routine maintenance twice a year. They were more reliable than that, but that wasn't enough to keep them from falling prey to various issues.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#699

Post by WorldMaker » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 10:55 PM UTC

catigula wrote: post #695

WorldMaker wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are hugely popular in the US because there are more of them for sale and they have a lot of momentum from Toyota getting lost in the Hydrogen distraction. From the perspective of a BEV with a modern range, hybrids have terrible all-electric range (if they even have true electric range) and worse maintenance schedules/cost of ownership. That's the compromise: less weight for good batteries for pure electric range…

>and worse maintenance schedules/cost of ownership Sorry, but this is simply incorrect. The Toyota Prius has the most reliable powertrain on the American market in most studies. This is the decades old Toyota hybrid planetary gearset engine and eCVT. It has less moving wear parts than an ICE engine, a generous warranty, absorbs brake wear, etc. It's pretty umambigious at this point, so I'm not sure where you're sourc…

More reliable than the average ICE, statistically, I will grant you. Though I think that has more to do with Toyota dominating US auto manufacturing reliability statistics in general, more than particulars of hybrids over ICE. The comparison, however, was to a full ("uncompromised") BEV. A full BEV has much fewer moving parts than ICE or Hybrid. (Especially because good electric motors don't even constitute "moving parts" when compared to an internal combustion engine, thanks to magnets.)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#700

Post by protocolture » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 10:57 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #319

KoolKat23 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the software for one (excluding Tesla), it's faster, more advanced, more creative (probably more gimmicks but still). Domestically (in China) they also offer much higher charging wattage. But yes quality is at parity and they're cheaper.

Most Chinese cars still have massive software quality issues that you don’t hear about because there are few of them around here. ADAS are usually much worse as well.

My biggest software issue with my GWM relates to how they gamed the DPF, which is a local requirement. They built in the required automaticaly regenerating DPF, but also set the temperature/rev requirement so that it never automatically regenerates (even if it indicates it is doing so). So I have to manually regenerate every other month.

Otherwise the software is pretty good, with the occasional midflight reboot.Its definitely no worse than the honda I ran previously.