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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#691
post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's always the voice. It sounds slightly rough and digital/robotic, not smooth and natural. If it's instrumental only, especially electronic music then I don't think I could tell.

That doesn't explain how you would disambiguate this at scale. And there are likely a dozen legit genres which use voices like this :)

At scale no. I just meant that on Spotify I have been hearing music lately that sounds off to me like this and when I look it up sure enough it was AI.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#692

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Same for me! Switched to Bandcamp + Navidrome and have decided that one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy. I will shamelessly promote the bandcampsync [1] CLI tool for automating downloads of your bandcamp library and bandcamp-sync-flask [2] wrapper that I built so I could invoke it from the web on my phone after I buy an album. [1] https://github.com/meeb/bandcampsync [2]…

Man, it was 1997 the last time I bought as much music as I did last year. I'm very happy that neither Youtube Music nor Spotify see a dime of it.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me! Switched to Bandcamp + Navidrome and have decided that one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy. I will shamelessly promote the bandcampsync [1] CLI tool for automating downloads of your bandcamp library and bandcamp-sync-flask [2] wrapper that I built so I could invoke it from the web on my phone after I buy an album. [1] https://github.com/meeb/bandcampsync [2]…

What's the navidrome pitch?

self-hosted winamp, using an open protocol, so you can use whatever client if you don't like its web application.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#694
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's really easy to argue against AI music and find that you're making exactly the same argument that was used against DJs and sampling in the 90s. "Real musicians" thought they were being ripped off by "non-musicians" who didn't know how to play an instrument, just a turntable or an AKAI. But it turns out that turntables and samplers are instruments if you allow people to get creative with them, and now we have…

We have had algorithmic composition for a long time. Here is a brief history of algorithmic composition from 1999 https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~blackrse/algorithm.html What is meant by "AI Music" is not works by Iannis Xenakis or certain Autechre albums. We should be defining all this better but we won't. It is also that there is no "AI music" equivalent of the amen break to invent new forms of art. The cultural struct…

Ever since the first electric guitarist who turned their amplifier input up way too high (*), artists have been ignoring the instructions that came with the technology and (mis)using it to make art, and they’ll do it with this one too.

(*) and before, but that’s an obvious example

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#695

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

There is a difference between Richard D. James hand-training an LLM on foley sounds he recorded himself to put in his latest IDM track, and the script kiddie spamming out 50 AI-generated mixes per day to get that sweet ad revenue on Youtube.

No one is complaining about the first case, because they are outnumbered by the second 100,000 to 1. RDJ isn't gonna use suno.ai no matter how pro-LLM he is.

Note: this is for sake of argument, I am not aware of RDJ using LLMs in any shape or form.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? Yes, when I make music, I am taking inspiration from all of the other artists I've listened to and using that in my music. If someone listens to my music, they are getting some value from my contribution, but also indirectly from the musicians that inspired me. The difference between that and AI is that I am a human being wh…

100%. I think there are some clear distinctions between AI training and human learning in practice that compound this. Humans learning requires individual investment and doesn't scale that efficiently. If someone invests the time to consume all of my published work and learn from it, I feel good about that. That feels like impact, especially if we interact and even more if I help them. They can perhaps reproduce anyt…

> If someone invests the time to consume all of my published work and learn from it, I feel good about that.

Agreed. My goal, my moral compass, is to live in a world populated by thriving happy people. I love teaching people new things and am happy to work hard to that end and sacrifice some amount of financial compensation. (For example, both of my books can be read online for free.)

I couldn't possibly care less about some giant matrix of floats sitting in a GPU somewhere getting tuned to better emulate some desired behavior. I simply have no moral imperative to enrich machines or their billionaire owners.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? Yes, when I make music, I am taking inspiration from all of the other artists I've listened to and using that in my music. If someone listens to my music, they are getting some value from my contribution, but also indirectly from the musicians that inspired me. The difference between that and AI is that I am a human being wh…

> I am a human being who deserves to live a life of dignity Sure, but so does the homeless guy living on the streets right now because computers and the internet automated his job - and yet here you are using the very tools ("mindless automatons") that put him out of work.

A given technology may benefit some while harming others. And it may have harms and benefits that operate on different time scales.

The invention of the shipping container put nearly every stevedore out of a job. But it made it radically cheaper to ship things and that improved the quality of life of nearly everyone on Earth.

I suspect that for most stevedores, it was a job where the wages provided dignity and meaning in their life, but where the work itself wasn't that central to their identity. I hope that most were able to find other work that was equally dignified.

That's certainly less true for musicians, poets, and painters where what they do is central to the value of the work and not just how much they can get paid.

There's no blanket technology-independent answer here. You have to look at a technology and all of its consequences and try to figure out what's worth doing and what isn't.

I think shipping containers are a pretty clear win. I think machine learning for classification is likely a win.

It's not at all clear to me that using generative AI to produce media is a win. I suspect it is a very large loss for society as a whole. Automating bullshit drudgery is fine. Most people don't want to do that shit anyway. But automating away the very acts that people find most profoundly human seems the height of stupidity to me.

Do you really want to live in a world where more people have to be Uber drivers and fewer people get to make art? Do you want to live in that world when it appears that the main people who benefit are already billionaires?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#698
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this and to answer the question you originally asked me, I do think users are consuming things they don't actually enjoy. The goal isn't to please the user, the goal is to not bore the user. If you talk to people I'm sure you'll find a lot of the music they listened to isn't "enjoyed" so much as it is inoffensive background noise.

It's not surprising that some people are mindless consumers, but it's not useful to assume the majority is, especially of paying customers, and competition exists.

You're assuming it's not useful because it doesn't bode well for your argument. What makes you think assuming the majority aren't mindless consumers is useful?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#699
post #676

The fuss about AI is interesting to me in music. The most popular and commercially successful artists are already basically using "AI" by having teams of people produce their ideas for them, if they're not outright buying a hit from someone like Max Martin. If you watch Timbaland's Masterclass, he is essentially squeaking noises into a mic which his underlings toil away with and produce into beats. If you don't like…

The music is produced by a large team and the headlining artist reduced to a brand in that case, but ultimately it is still a team of people. The use of AI in their place forecloses the possibility of their artistic drive overcoming and subverting the conformist demands of the music industry.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#700
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI music is the same. There is no surprise. No human element. No interest. No intention.

But the qusstion never got answered. If you liked a song that you later realized was generated would it ruin the song? If a robot ai basketball team was authentic enough to have hoodwinked me into thinking it was a real entertaining team then it has become a different question than whether or not I would knowingly participate as a spectator in an AI basketball league.

OK, if you watched an AI basketball game and thought it was real and enjoyed it, would you follow an AI basketball league?
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